Currency Debasement

Roman Systemic Currency Debasement

Charge Boys, and Give'em the Cold Steel. Grandpa, in the late 50s, as I recall well, would each day visit the banks, and get bangs of coins, and he would methodically go through them all, one by one, with a magnified glass, whereat, I learned of little markings like "D" "S" minted on the coins, as they were neatly placed in the blue socketed coin books. But there was one coin of which I will always remember, the 1943 steel penny. I suppose many people today have never even seen one. I have. They are real and do exist. Mostly made of Iron, they are literally dirt cheap to produce, despite a tad of zinc. When base metal prices were high then during WWII and supplies were limited, yet needed for the war effort, the government simply starting minting steel pennies. The government can do and has done whatever it wants to our USA money.

The copper penny came back, and had relative real value to monetized silver. Our coinage money was in intrinsic balanced. We all knew what we had in our pockets and wallets. But then came the 60s, the cost of the Vietnam War and the Great Society and trips to the Moon, and the government stopped minting silver dimes and quarters and halves as the government moved toward decoupling the dollar from silver and gold, violating the constitution and debasing our money, to wage war, social engineer, and impress the Russkies. The government has over spent and debased the dollar, on a power trip extending around the globe. To continue the power trip, the deficits continue and that means continuously debasing the dollar, resulting in staggering inflation at times, with moderate inflation now becoming systemic in the US economy. The systematic debasing of monetized silver and gold through 100 years of inflationary practices for more government control seems as though it will last forever, or until a fatal global collapse of all fiat money. Is there really a zero value of anything? May be not. General Sherman burnt CSA script to keep warm at night as Georgia howled using worthless fiat. Keeping warm on a cold night does has some monetary value, does it not?

The government may not have counted on base metals rising to the highs of late. The copper penny and nickel nickel have survived to this day, but with base metal prices increasing relative to the fiat dollar, the penny and nickel are becoming way over valued to where it may become profitable to hoard pennies and nickels, and effectively take them out of circulation. Something needs to be done now so as to be able to replace these prospective vanishing pennies and nickels which will most certainly vanish from circulation in the near future, simply because they are worth more than 1/100 and 1/20 of a fiat dollar, respectively. Its common "cents".

As the government continues its undisciplined monetary policies, void of monetized silver and gold in circulation, the penny and nickel will go by way of that dinosaur, the silver dime. Sure copper pennies and nickel nickels will be around, if you care to buy them by the bag full for capital gains. It seems clear in the short term, the government will continue to use its no-limit credit card of the bond market to charge more and more debt and continue to debase the dollar, in so doing, shrinking its real value, each day. The penny and nickel in circulation will be history, and very soon, I suspect, and you will know exactly when to start hoarding the penny and nickel, just listen for a treasury hue&cry, "charge boys, and give'em the cold steel".

Decadent Socialism Requires Currency Debasement

The debasement of our money goes hand in hand with the debasement of our collective morality, in the dumpster of decadent godless socialism. Actually, the penny and nickle do not contain historical amounts of copper and nickle being debased already by zinc, as the penny and nickle are going by way of the silver dime quarter and halves. But even the tiny amount of silver, copper and nickle left in our coinage, all of that intrinsic worth will be gone as well, as all coinages is reduced to steel, the cheapest metal of durability. They are no pennies, nickles, dimes, quarters and dollars, our coinage is a absolute fraud upon the American people, who have voted for socialistic DC controls used to support our TOTALITARIAN DEMOCRACY and the DC elitists vote-pandering power trips, that has ruined our money, since the creation of the FED-IRS-FIAT complex that has ENSLAVED us all. The US penny to now copper clad zinc. Just like the Romans, debase the currency, and ruination awaits. The debasement of the currency, the of use of fiat money, enables national socialism. Fiat currency debasement enables pandering cementing of political power. National Socialism evolves into Totalitarian Fascism or Totalitarian Communism.

The US House approves GOP budget that boosts defense spending and balances in 9 years. Balances in 9 years? These Rambo commies and their 5 year plan, after plan, and in 9 years, we get another plan. Its absolutely ridiculous. There will be no balance in 9 years, just pandering for here and now. The FED is trapped, as it cant raise rates or really end QE. If the FED raises rates, or stops QE, the economy implodes, deficits explode, and that is sad truth, and FED knows it and will not be honest, as the,monkey show just keeps on going. Did you notice Yellen back peddling on rate increases? It was just all jaw boning from the get go, deceit and lies, and she knows it. As as long as ZIRP is maintained, wealth transfer occurs from middle and poor classes to top 1%, so Yellen can feed her real masters, the banksters and greedsters of wall street.

ZIRP, zero interest policy, enables the banksters to borrow free and manipulate markets for criminal profits, and enables CEO stock buy backs, as CEO obscene compensation, elevating stock prices making the FED appear as doing a good job, when, in reality the economy is tanking as evinced by the labor participation rate, thus, over pricing the dow jones propaganda average. A zero interest rate indicates the true value of the FRN, an irredeemable ponzi coupon having zero intrinsic value, but only inherent value based upon threat of imprisonment if federal taxes are not paid in FRNs (Federal Reserve Notes, US paper dollars). The US mint mints a 1$ silver eagle having "One Dollar" embossed on it, and the one dollar FRN also has "One Dollar" printed on it. They are not the same, one is a con job, the other is real. Can you guess which one is the con job? My 10 year old, guessed correctly, he gets it. Gold and Silver coinage are "Money", the FRN is a debt based currency used as a medium of exchange. Occupiers have a legitimate beef, corruption runs wild, the FED and politicians bought, and wall street making out like the bandits they are.

Global currency wars are heating up. Russia is now ready print 3T rubles in deficit, as currency war heating up globally. US EU JAPAN with gross QE, and right on Que, Russia to print 3T rubles, as the currency wars heat up, with China now engaging, in a global race. The global currency war is, in a race to the bottom value, inevitable global fiat currency implosion, and the world's central bankers KNOW IT, but hide the truth, and global economic destruction is certain.

Government Bondage Bonds

The Federal Government and the States are sovereign entities presently capable of issuing bonds. As politicians pander voters for votes to cement political power, the lure of bonds is tempting. Currently, the federal government and many states are technically insolvent, that is, bankrupt.  As long as bonds are available, sovereign governments will eventually reach a state of insolvency. A mechanism must be instituted for limiting the amount the bonds. The evil of debt to productivity, prosperity and corruption can never be understated. Municipalities, corporations, partnerships, and private persons can eliminate bond debt through federal bankruptcy. There are many possible schemes that could be used to completely eliminate in perpetuity eventual insolvency and default by the state and federal governments. However, such schemes must be within constitution limits. Bonds should not be used to steal future wealth to the present time, particularly as a means to encourage endless debt, insolvency, political power, pander and corruption. Americans are totally enslaved by the federal government as tax mules or states dependents. Enough is Enough.

Currently, the federal government is bankrupted, with 18T$ in debt. With presently 500B$ in annual deficits projected this fiscal year, and with interest rates at near zero (ZIRP) on short term money, the national debt is unserviceable. With QE, the currency is being debased as a means to indirectly rob the people of their wealth through targeting FED led desired inflation. Some want a balanced budget amendment. In the present financial state, that is just great political pander, but utterly fails to understand holistic big problems facing US. No politician will attack the real problem, and all fail to recognize that the problem today is not fiscal, but insolvency. No politician has a plan to zero the national debt for a necessary monetary reboot. Fiscal budget pandering is no different in kind than socialistic pandering, as both are total fails, on the paved road. The major problem facing the US is insolvency and systemic FED led corruption. The farces get into full gear when 5 year plans to balance budget are rolled out by political panderers, when real problem insolvency. Communists have 5 year plans, capitalists dont, and rest assured, after five years of fail, yet another communist 5 year plan will be rolled out again, in habitual financial failure.

The federal government can regulate interstate commerce, including banking and finance. Some contend that a balance budget constitutional amendment is preferred. This will fail, and short terms fiscal deficits prohibitions are inherently restrictive. Focus must be had at the heart of the matter, and that is limiting debt/tax ratios. Most view debt levels as debt to GDP, but this does not bring into play the necessary voter feedback control over government. Taxes upon people are directly felt and voters can and will vote out politicians seeking to enslave the citizens with perpetual debt. Thus, debt/tax ratio provide the necessary society control function. 

Those who call for a balance budget amendment are on the right track, but fail to allow emergency flexibility and do not understand the current state of the unserviceable national debt of the federal and state governments, and the need for voter control. As debt interest payments are based upon debt, floating market interest rates render a balance budget amendment ineffectual with market place limitations. A balance budget amendment is way to little, way to late, inherently restrictive, inflexible, and does not directly address the fundamental problem of debilitating long term debt and the need for voter control.

As a simple solution, sovereign bonds can not be issued when the debt/tax ratio is greater than 1. This allows for bonds and short term  financing of emergency operations. This allows for short term emergency deficits. This prevents in large measure long term indebtedness, insolvency and political pandering and corruption. The sovereign governments can enact such laws to be self controlling, but can also repeal such laws, rendering such laws effectively useless. 

A constitution amendment is the prefer way to go, specifying that the federal government can not borrow money or issue bonds when the debt/tax ratio exceeds unity unless and only during a state of senatorial declared war. If such a constitution amendment can be had, it may also allow for the federal government to render state debt and bonds to be discharged upon application of a state in federal bankruptcy court, when ever a state become insolvent, thereby discharging the debt. 

States Want their Money Back

Yeah baby, its called rebellion to the "vile Yankee race" centered at Yankee bullion stadium where the NY CRIMEX pits shut out, take down, and cap bullion prices time and time again, with their illegal manipulative naked monstrous short bullion futures positions, paper pushing down the price of bullion in a long standing concerted effort to maintain the illusion and appearance of a strong dollar under the strong dollar policy as criminally enabled by the blind sighted CFTC and inactive US attorney generals.

But that is not the only thing that is up. The dollar index is up again to 87.25 nears it 88+ top on the last dollar surge in a second round of knee-jerk responses the to global financial fiasco, spiraling out of control, accelerating so, forming a grandiose mother of all double tops in the dollar index, looking forward to a monster fall, as Obama's stimulus bill ignites hyperinflation in the months to come, and in the predicted death throws of the global fiat complex, which will eventually lead to a global return to the exclusive use of real constitutional gold and silver money as the international medium of exchange. US Bonds and the dollar are up, for now, as a perceived safety raft on a global sea of red ink, but both are headed for a huge fall.

With bullion prices decoupling of late from the dollar, it may matter not what the dollar does, as bullion is on an upward romp of its own, propelled by over whelming investment demand, as the GOLD CARTEL runs out of bullion to maintain the illegal suppression game, and as an in your face repudiation of twenty years of active criminal bullion suppression. But lets be clear, a monster fall of the dollar from 88 to 50 on the dollar index would have a global affect on all fiat moneys, with a resulting upward surge affect upon bullion prices world wide, launching gold and silver prices to the moon if not to mars, and finally finally finally busting the criminals on station in the Yankee NY Crimex pits, leading to the MOTHER OF ALL SHORT SQUEEZES of the huge short positions in bullion built up over the many years, which are now under water, looking to pop up bullion prices at any time, maybe 100% or more, and soon. The triggers to that monster short squeeze are all perfectly in place, from every corner of the globe. The people are simply tired of the fiat paper game, that secretly robs them of their little wealth slowly over time, like a regularly visiting thief in the night.

Oh, and guess what? Something else is up as well, as least from a recent low, and that is bullion itself. Yep, despite the machinations of the GOLD CARTEL, gold has made all time highs in foreign currencies of late, such as in pound-gold and euro-gold, and here in the states, gold is approaching all time highs as well, before launching from $1000/oz upwards to $2000/oz this year. Silver is no sleeper and has come back from one of the most obvious and blatant silver manipulative take downs in recent history, as in August 2008, reaching a low 8.60/oz from its high of 21$/oz, for a one month 60% criminal take down of the silver price. But guess who decided not to play ball at Yankee stadium? Silver now stands at 13.65$/oz, which is a whopping 60% increase in price since that criminal take down a few months back, with much much more up side to come, and soon. And lets not forget that today prices for a silver Eagle on eBay is closer to 18$/oz than 14$/oz, and private sellers and buyers set the real retail prices of bullion.

Ted Butler, the well known silver hero, is in absolute disgust of course, these days, with the blind-sighted intentionally unenforcing CFTC, as now it appears that the rebellion is spreading into the ranks of the GOLD CARTEL itself and the SILVER PRICE MANGERS, as the rats bail out of a sinking ship, in that, there now only remains one or possibly two banks that are actively suppressing bullion, with many of the commercial bullion banks breaking ranks, and, if you can believe this, the turn coat commercial bullion banks are now going long of gold and silver, as well as joining all foreign national banks, that use to be net bullion sellers of WAG2. The bullion suppression rebellion is spreading through the Yankee lands with deserters fleeing the criminal bullion suppression conspiracy that has held bullion prices in lock down mode for over twenty years to support the illusion and intrinsically worthless fiat paper dollar and the global fiat complex having the dollar as the world reserve currency.

The southern rebellion to the NY CRIMEX "vile Yankee race" did not start in the southern hemisphere, however, nor did it start in the NY CRIMEX pits itself with the deserting bullion banks, it actually started here in the states, first with the people buying bullion, and then with the states, NH, IN, CO, and now MO of late, authoring real money bills to enable states to mint silver coinage to bypass the NY Crimex pits and the conspiratorial DC dollar printers, who have collectively destroyed the country's sound money, over the last 100 years since the FED creation, with the US money now mere toilet paper and junk metal, a shadow of their former bullion based strength and national pride. With all global fiat paper moneys now finally suspect for the inherent frauds they are, and as used by banks to maintain inflation targets and interest rate enslavement of the people, the world peoples have had enough of the criminal suppression of bullion prices perfected at the US NY Crimex division of the FED bank, under the SEC and CFTC noses and congressional enabling supervision.

With foreign mints now divorcing themselves from the fake suppressed bullion prices, official recognition of the bullion price suppression becomes mainstream, finally. THE GOLD CON GAME IS UP! Pressure will be on private mints, dealers, and wholesalers to maintain suitable margins above the mint prices, which are above the suppressed CRIMEX prices. At nearly 14$/oz for silver, 3$/oz mint premium, plus a 3$/oz dealer premium, silver could launch to 20$/oz right here, right now, in an IN YOUR FACE price push that could well bury the naked short sellers (now probably singular) on the NY Crimex, and we all know who that one seller is, and that is, "the FED's bank in drag", as Rob Kirby correctly phrases it. The bullion price suppression rebellion is gaining momentum, as Midas leads his GATA army to destroy the "vile Yankee race" at the NY CRIMEX and their bullion price suppressors operating in direct violation of constitutional definitions of money that is suppose to be of silver and gold, that is, real money that all can trust, and who all have trusted for the last 5000 years, and particularly in 1776, as well as in 1861.

The global bullion rebellion to the "vile Yankee race" centered at Yankee NY Crimex pits is spreading fast, from desertion of the bullion suppressive cabal commercial banks now bullion buyers, from WAG2 central bank bullion sellers now turn coat buyers, from private buyers and sellers on web auction sites, from US States with real money statutory bills, to the purchasing public buying bullion is record amounts tightening bullion supplies to choking levels, and now to official foreign Mints and Governments raising premiums above the farcical NY Crimex prices.

It smells of VICTORY against an evil, an obscene evil that robs us all. Its time to break out and wave the Bonnie Blue flags for independence, for real honest constitutional money, for free and fair bullion prices, and for victory over the vile GOLD CARTEL and unscrupulous manipulative SILVER PRICE MANAGERS on station at the Yankee NY CRIMEX pits, as the global people surge together in collective revolt in disgust to the criminal bullion manipulation that will no longer be tolerated in the southern rebellion.

Every Breath Bernanke Takes

States In Monetary Rebellion 

MT, CO, MO, IN, NH, GA, MD, OH States are Seeking Protection from DC under 10th amendment rights to coinage and state. Sound Money is what we need. I have thought long and hard about what the states should do, in response to being FIAT PAPERED TO DEATH by the FEDs, and have development a comprehensive minting strategy. Does anyone want a confidential explanation? I have developed a confidential sound money minting strategy, adoptable by the several states, in a universal standard way. I am looking for funding to start this mint so it can serve the states, as needed. Here is a collection of writings over the past 5 years, analyzing our world, our money, and our US Totalitarian Democracy. One man's opinion, of course, but, I could be right. (Like so far right, its reactionary in many ways, yet progressive in world relations) If anyone knows a publisher and ghost writer to put this collection into a book for profit, a good chunk of that would go to your favorite charity. I am looking for funding, and this might be a source, to start a Mint to put bullion in the hands of the folks in case the financial meltdown become catastrophic, to support the Real-Money bills and state minting in MT, IN, CO, NH and MO of late, to have ready cash real money in the hands of the folks to prevent possible (if not now probable) anarchy throughout our country.

Simple Questions For Americans

My fellow Americans, I have two simple questions to ask you all. If the founding fathers knew that script aint worth a continental, and the US constitution defines gold and silver coinage as money, if the US Mint is required by law to mint gold and silver eagle coins, If IRAs can treat gold as a tier 1 asset and may contain gold in the IRA portfolios, and FED Chairman Bernake testifies before congress that gold is not money, where is the perjury indictment, Mr Holder, US Attorney General?

Naked-Short Comex selling by JPM, enables China gold accumulation, destroys US defense to anarchy on FRN collapse, AND ITS TREASON! The Gold cartel of 15 bullion banks, with JPM the mob boss, aided by world central banks, know exactly what is happening, JPM GS HSBC et al dont care, its all about $ in their pocket by market rigging, treason, and undue influence over government.

If JPM and the gold cartel regularly naked-short sell gold on the COMEX, and thereby cap and suppress bullion prices use around the world, and if China is buying the entire world's gold production year after year, and if all the central banks around the world know that the fiat paper money, is going to implode eventually and are trying to QE kick the can, as all 600 fiat currencies used throughout man kind have collapsed, and bullion is only known money that can reboot a monetary system, thereby preventing total anarchy on the streets for economic use, is not JPM QS HBSC et al, committing TREASON against the USA?

The FEDERAL RESERVE SYSTEM is planning to own the USA, meaning that the banksters in charge, the banking elite, and their shareholders, other banks, seek to OWN the US, but for what purpose? Lets run it down, as best we can.

US is insolvent 

In order to service 18T$ in debt and fund 1T$ in deficits, the FED BANK must keep interest rates artificially low, and QEIII ZIRP TWIST does that, otherwise the IN YOUR FACE fiscal cliff. We get that. The FED BANK is going to buy toxic mortgage back securities, (MBS), thus taking a real estate position in our homes and business on a massive scale. The many banks, government agency, Fanny/Freddy which are also insolvent are happy to do so, to get that "junk" off their books. However, there is a catch, its called financial repression, forcing or limiting market alternatives to other investments, so as to forceably channel money into instruments which serve that purpose. Odds are that these banks, being bailed out of their toxic MBSs will use the proceeds to buy US Treasuries, thus artificially suppressing yield curve, preventing the fiscal cliff, as some is bled off to pump up the stock market, artificially, as well as criminal activity of suppressing bullion prices on the COMEX for using monstrous naked short selling, eg JPManipulator, getting a pass by the CTFC, to give the appearance that the dollar is sound. That is the game, we know it well, nothing new there.

In order to get to this stage, as no crisis should go unexploited, one must first bankrupt the country through legitimate political processes, and pandering people for 100 years, (vote for me and I will give you the goodies), serves that end, and has been immanently successful supported by the fraudulent MSM. If we dont bail out the banks, the system collapses. We all get that ploy.  We ALL know that debasing a currency is the beginning of the end for any power, that printing money, to infinity creates hyper-inflation, and eventually the collapse of the economy. They know that, we know that, history knows that. Nuff said. So, the banking elite contributes to both political parties. They insert their markers into the pants of the politicians. We all get that. One of the surest ways to become a millionaire is to be elected to the senate, and H Reid, the land swindler guy, knows it well. We all get that.

Monetary Corruption Time

A) Create a FED bank that can print paper money to eliminate gold and silver discipline in honest money, and rant about bullion being barbaric relics of no modern use, (but note that all central banks hoard bullion),
B) Create a suppressive income tax regime, so as to enable enslavement of the people,
C) Promote Socialism, which is inherently a failed economic policy, and the current administration is all over that as was WW FDR LBJ, so as to
D) over the very long time and in tiny steps, bankrupt the country, (create and throw in a few wars as the misdirective), so as to
E) create a financial economic crisis, particularly with financial bubbles, 1920s WWII, 2010s WWIII, that can not be solved but through normal depresssionary deleveraging through normal business cycles, and destroy capitalism and freedom, along with
F) creating interlocking CDSs so as to make sure the threat of implosion is real, (and GW Bush bought that in spades),
G) so at to put unlimited power in a private FED bank, that can then
H) through Financial Repression, require purchase of US treasuries, (as foreigners become increasingly unwilling to buy our debt based upon a debauched currency, and coerce Commercial Bank purchases into treasuries, to keep the game afloat, while the MBS are concentrated on the FED balance sheets,
I) implode the economy as a natural result of debasing the currency, wiping out the middle class, (them dirty freedom lovers) and their incomes and property,
J) maintain a police state, of IRS thugs, homeland security, and rant about anti-government extremists as another political misdirection, who are not anti-government, but anti totalitarian socialistic fascist government, the fascism coming into play with the devil's marriage of the banking arm and the political arm, controlling the people,
K) to end up with a for-sure economic implosion, under the guise of trying to revive the housing market,
L) leading to the default by millions upon millions of homeowners, so that
M) the FED bank and their henchmen can foreclose upon the masses, concentrating ownership of the US in the FED bank, owned by member banks and the monied interests,
N) to put the people under enslavement of either lifelong mortgages or rents to the FED bank,
O) to put the banksters in ownership of the country and in financial control of all markets, to lock in political power,
P) owning all the real property and all the gold and silver.

But for what purpose? My only conclusion is THE NEW WORLD ORDER, where the banking elite control the world. Defeat these pigs, pick up some freedom from the printing presses, and buy some gold and silver. Vote out the totalitarian pigs enslaving us with their socialism and paper money and taxes. My fellow Americans, its time we consider revolt and rebellion against the fascist pigs in DC. My vision of the new USA world order, is freedom based, for all the people.
The Utah Mint

Utah Mint Private Funding Proposal.

Funding and Mint Production Line Development

Utah mint, aka DMR, currently seeks a 2M$ private loan from a financier to loan DMR 2M$ at 1% absolutely fixed for 3 years.

Loan is fully collaterized at all times by cash or bullion on hand.

DMR presently has 850K$ in bullion to cover part of the loan.

Loan is used to buy minting equipment and more bullion stock.

Estimate is 500K$ for equipment and 1500K$ for more bullion stock.

On 6/30/12 DMR pays back $2,020,000.00, So not much profit on loan.

Decision per OPTION to convert money to bullion allocated stock.

A decision would be made by 6/30/12, to take back loan money, or to exercise an option to deposit the loan money as allocated bullion with the Mint-Depository, so as to have the 2M$ money buy allocated bullion, to cycle the allocated bullion through the mint, for profits and most importantly, for wealth protection. Actual expected date of full production is 2 years from date of loan.

Bullion Cycling for Long Term Profits.

If the option is exercised, after the three year development period, before 6/30/12, DMR then uses the 2M$ from the loan pay back, to buy bullion on behalf of the financier/depositor, which allocated bullion is then cycled through the mint-depository-distributor, and back to mint, buying more bullion stock, in repetitive cycles, for recurring profits. Target return is 5% for the private depositor, per cycle, and several cycles each year, are possible and projected, with accumulated target returns of 15% to 30% per year, with the returns being paid in species, that is bullion, as the privately owned and allocated bullion hoard is multiplied each cycle and each year, as a way to increase a bullion hoard for profit and wealth protection. The Utah mint will be the ONLY bullion bank-depository-distributor in the United States that pays a bullion depositor a return in bullion. All other depositories charge a fee to only store bullion. Up to 15 private investors will be accepted into the Utah bullion depositor's club. These will be heavy hitters, with a 10M$ minimum buy in. The financier of the loan, however, can get in for only 2M$, as a preferred private investors in consideration of the initial 2M$ loan. The Mint has a target of about 150M$ of bullion stock for cycling. The Mint is also targeting state minting operations, using a proprietary production method to support state minting, which may increase returns significantly. The private funding financier will be given a option to use the Mint-Depository-Distributor with only a 2M$ buy in, to store and multiply their bullion of gold and silver bars, after the operation of the Mint is established, for profit and for protection of their wealth, in the event of a fiat paper money collapse, which is now considered POSSIBLE, if not probable.

My fellow Americans,

The US Government has stuck us all with the fiat paper money of zero intrinsic value. In the event of economic collapse, now deemed possible, if not probably, or a collapse of the fiat paper money complex, Americans will need gold and silver, in hand, in quantity, as real money, for exchange, to prevent anarchy across our great country.

The Government seeks to make us use exclusively paper money, while over printing that money and destroying the paper money value, and does not actively seek to put gold and silver in the hands of folks, as a protection from any monetary or economic collapse. We THE PEOPLE are at the mercy of the fiat paper money printers, manipulators, and the DC controlling totalitarians.

Captains of finance and industry need to step up to protect the country and the people from our own government in the event of a monetary or economic collapse.

The Utah mint is directed to serving that end, by providing gold and silver items to the folks, as real money, as a last ditch defense to potential anarchy in our streets and markets.

Eight states are now in rebellion MT OH IN NH MO CO GA MD offering sound money bills to protect the individual states from the DC printing presses. The Utah mint has developed a minting strategy to universally serve the needs of the states. Communications between the Utah Mint and the states have been opened. Utah mint needs funding to start private operations and to demonstrate the universal minting strategy to the several states seeking protection from the DC totalitarians.

Are there any true American patriots of means who will help the Utah Mint protect our great country from the abuses of DC's fiat money printing presses and to protect our great country from possible anarchy?

Derrick Michael Reid

26 La Costa Court

Laguna Beach CA 92651

(949) 497-4384

Sorry Polymetals,

I sit here in the war room, hunkered down, with the doors bolted and barricaded, locked and loaded, defending my home from government intrusion, and wonder if it is treason, to use international global pressure to defeat the US FED bank, the heart of the global fiat money complex, to return the USA to constitutional money, real and honest money, of gold and silver coinage. I may need a shark to advise me, but I dislike any entanglements with the monopolizing licensed dispute resulution sharks that sit beyond the court bars.

I am thinking of contacting Polymetals, Kraznayarks, Russia, to further Putin's plan to dethrone the US FIAT DOLLAR as the world reserve currency, in my attempt to return the USA to its constitutional gold and silver coinage, doing it, through the back door, so to speak, as the political hacks in DC have no backbone to make such a difficult move.

I am more than capable of setting up a gold and silver mints for producing gold and silver coinage for the US domestic market. I am capable of managing the development of new production capabilities, developing new technology by high tech US tooling companies that can be employed for the production of small gold silver items with improved cost-effective custom production methods. Polymetals, located in Kraznayark Siberia and Habarosk in Primorski in the Far East, may just want to engage me in assisting them in setting up custom minting operations there, using US technology for the sale of gold, silver, platinum, and palladium small items for retail sales throughout Russia and the EU, South America, Central Asia, and Southeast Asia. This business would be ripe for the billion dollar oligarchs to multiply gains and wealth. The idea is to put bullion coinage in the hands of the folks, in case the world goes to bullion backed currencies by UN treaty.

Russia, China, as well as the USA, must plan for the inevitable currency turmoil that lies directly ahead of us all. We as a global community have not seen the worse of it, and it is going to get much much worse, making the 1930s style depression look like a cake walk. Putin was in Dovas Switzerland recently, and he is correct, the world must dump the US fiat dollar as a reserve currency, and get all countries on equal fair footing, with honest money, and the only way that happens is by UN treaty outlawing fiat money use, as global community returns to real honest gold and silver money, and here, the USA, Russia and China have very good gold and silver mine production, for that to happen, and it will happen, in time.

If the USA will not lead the way, by hanging on to its global enslavement and power projections using FIAT money, I could help Russia or China, expand their mint capacity with updated modern minting equipment. For example, I could help Polymetals get into minting, on a massive global scale, so as to put bullion in the hands of the folks for profit with a standard honest medium of exchange world wide. I can help extent Russia's bullion business into the cash markets around the world, by setting up Russian owned mints, replicating modern USA tooling and equipment, strategically located in Russia around the globe in five strategically targeted locations, including the EU, South America, Middle East, Central Asia, and Southeast Asia.

What I would propose, is a standard modular transportable high capacity mint production line design, that is readily expandable in quantity, that takes refined large bullion bars, comex acceptable for example, and produces small items using novel automated production processes for sale to the people en mass, and these production lines can be set up anywhere by anyone in any amount, as desired. This would be like Stalin's mass movement of Russia arms production plants to the Urals as the Nazies advanced on Moscow, except modernly, it’s the US FIAT money encroachment into every FOREX reserve account of every major central bank in the world, and hence, the strangle hold, and enslavement. As such, if the USA retains its fiat money, and retains its FIAT status as the world reserve currency, enslaving the world with it and by it, I could assist Polymetals in setting up Russian private mints, for example, three in Russia, such as, St Petersburg, Kraznayarks, Habarosk, and five outside of Russia, South America, EU, Central Asia, Middle East, and Southeast Asia, so as to provide good global coverage in these markets. I could do this for the USA, China, and Russia, and any major player as part of a UN perfected plan to put all nations on an equal monetary footing.

In the out years to come, war and fiat money will be eventually replaced by THE TRADE WARS and REAL HONEST MONEY, gold and silver coinage, where the UN, by international treaty, outlaws fiat money world wide, so that all nations trade fairly as between all nations. You just cant cheat a real gold or silver coin, that has no liability, no counter party risk, and can not just be printed and inflated. My concern is that Treasury or IRS will throw my butt in jail for treason. I think I will stay hunkered down, (for the time being), I have a wife and two kids to feed.

Sorry World. Sorry Polymetals.

Derrick Michael Reid


Return of Real Money,

REAL MONEY again in the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, is driven by state governments seeking protection from the 100 years of socialistic monetary excesses of the Federal Government. Indiana, New Hampshire, and Colorado are leading the way. Hence, The Federal-State Bi-Currency System. (As predicted in 2005).

The Federal Government is moving to a complete Fiat Money Regime.

1, 5, 10, 20, 50, 100 fiat paper FRNs of zero intrinic worth.

1ct 5ct 10ct 25ct 50ct 1$ steel/cladded/fake coinage.

The US Government uses the FIAT System, (paper, steel and clads).

Steel coinage has already been authorized.

Steel coinage has been used before in the USA.

Cladded coinage is currently being used in the USA.


FIST PREFERRED OPTION, the best situation.

State use of Federal Minting Operations where possible.

Feed Blanks to Federal Government to Mint old US coinage again.



Gold:Silver ratio of 16:1 is consistent with silver as money.

WEALTH RETENION at the state banks.

20$ Double Eagle (Use the US Mint) using Gold Blanks.

(A private person can exchange one 20$ gold coin for 20 1$ silver coins, but can not exchange the other way around, as GOLD is for wealth retention, and silver is for street currency, two metals for two completely different purposes, and, until such time that real money is reenacted at the federal level per UN treaties to abolish fiat money, the one way official state exchange remains in place, as private person can always exchange at any rate they choose at private coin shops. This also applies to eagles, 16:1 one way only, 16 silver eagles for 1 gold eagle, but not the other way around.)

STREET CURRENCY at the state banks.

1$ Walking Liberty (Use the US Mint) Silver Blanks

50ct Franklin-Liberty Bell (Use the US Mint) Silver Blanks

25ct Washington (Use the US Mint) Silver Blanks

10ct Winged Liberty aka Mercury (Use the US Mint) Silver Blanks

5ct Indian-Buffalo (Use the US Mint) Nickel Blanks

1ct Wheat-Lincoln (Use the US Mint) Copper Blanks

The States use a real money system.

The Federals use a fiat money system.

The State and Federals us a BI-CURRENCY interim money system.

The State real money system at an exchange rate to Federal Fiat.

Authorize the use of existing old American Heritage Coinage.

The Dime: The composition and diameter of the dime have changed throughout its mintage. Initially the dime was 0.75 inch (19 millimeters) wide, but it was changed to its present size of 0.705 inch (17.91 millimeters) in 1828. The composition (initially 89.24 percent silver and 10.76 percent copper) remained constant until 1837, when it was altered to 90 percent silver and 10 percent copper. Dimes with this composition were minted until 1966, although those minted in 1965 and 1966 bear the date 1964. Beginning in 1965, dimes also began to be minted with a clad composition of cupronickel this composition is still in use today.

The Mercury dime (Winged Liberty) is considered to be one of the most visually appealing of all U.S. coins, and is highly sought after by collectors. 90% silver, 10% copper. Do not honor Rosevelt, he was the one who CONFISCATED the people's gold. Honor LIBERTY with the Mercury Dime. Mercury Dime 1916 to 1945 finess 0.9000

2.500grams, 0.08038weight, 0.07234silver.

Real money in the hands of the folks is LIBERTY from government socialistic tyranny as enforced by the IRS and criminal sanctions.

When the Federal Government abandons FIAT money, and it will happen eventually, the states' money, accepted across all states, is readily adopted by the Federal Government and is consistent with our heritage of money.


During Start up do not DUPLICATE Minting EFFORT were possible.

Do not produce a state 1oz coin, but rather feed blanks to the US mint for minting 1oz gold/silver eagle coinage.

If the federal government will not produce 50ct 25ct 10ct 5ct and 1ct REAL MONEY heritage coinage struck on blanks provided by the states, then, and ONLY then, do the states go into the coinage business, and do so most minimally as possible.

10ct 0.1oz silver and 1ct 0.01oz silver cladded blanks are needed.

Minimal Custom State Minting Operations

Bi-Currency State Minting for Local State Economies

Use Federal 1oz Gold/Silver Eagles (1/2 1/4 1/10oz also)

0.1oz State Dime State Mint (0.1oz Silver)

0.01oz Wheat Penny State Mint (0.01oz Silver cladded)

People CAN NOT swap 16oz Silver for 1oz gold at STATE BANKS.

Silver is used as the STREET currency.

Gold is used in bank vault hoards for private wealth retention.

If the Federal Government will not Mint old heritage coinage,

then the states must strike out on their own. (pun intended)

The state should do so MINIMALLY, as eventually the UN will treaty the abolishment of all FIAT money for international exchanges, and require gold/silver and then the Federal government will also move toward a gold/silver monetary regime, hence, STATE efforts will eventually become moot and should be MINIMAL new minting.

Exchange Rated Bi-Currency, Set Fiat exchange rate

1oz Gold Eagle $50 (Use the US Mint) Gold Blanks

1oz Eagle (Use the US Mint) Silver Blanks


Monetary Gold Silver Ratio

20$ double eagle gold coin .9675 gold oz.

1$ Liberty eagle silver .77343 silver oz.

Gold Silver Ratio (20 x .77343)= (Au:Ag x .9675)

15.4686 oz of Silver coinage = Au:Ag 0.9675 oz of Gold

Au:Ag is 15.988217 or 16:1 Gold:Silver Monetary Ratio

50$ US Gold Eagle "can be" exchanged at any STATE BANK,

for 16 1$ 1oz Silver Eagles. Will not happen immediately,

but will in time as silver returns to being real money, used on the street for every day usage, as monetary silver relative to gold is very low, and hence, as gold/silver return as currency, silver will move up in value, as a bi-industrial/monetary metal, and will easily reach 16:1 ratio to gold in value and face value in time.

The individual states must provide:

1) Wealth retention in GOLD and 2) Street currency in SILVER.

As any state system would be replaced in time, so


1oz 1$ Silver Standard Consistent with US Silver Eagles


B) 1oz $50 Gold Coin exchanged for 16 1oz 1$ silver eagles

Use the 1oz Gold Eagle US Minted as the gold standard.

Gold is used as Wealth Retention at the official 16:1 exchange rate. Until market prices reach 16:1, private parties can exchange their gold/silver coinage and bars at any private Au:Ag ratio they want at the local coin shop.

The STATES must not interfere with that street exchange, as the STATE bank should only provide wealth retention in gold, and street currency in silver. Don’t force commerce to have to deal with mixing and matching gold/silver, until the Federal government and the UN take over using the historical fixed ratio of 16:1.


D) 1oz Silver Coin 1$ (1$ silver eagles US Minted)

Use the 1$ 1oz Silver Eagle US Minted as the silver standard

E) 0.1oz Silver Dime 10ct State Mint

F) 0.01oz Silver Penny 1ct State Mint

Hence, the states need to minimally mint:

C) 0.1oz dime and (State Mint) using blanks.

D) 0.01oz penny. (State Mint) using blanks.

Blank use is imperative so that other states can readily adopt machinery and production process, use the same minting scheme, and hence readily join other states in the use of real money.


I believe in GOD, COUNTRY, and the global ASSENT OF MAN, and analyze money in term of geo-politics, good and evil, the on-going international global confluence, human cultural evolution, and the peaceful co-existence of all peoples on earth, as one, in my version of THE NEW WORLD ORDER, as perfected by the global return of real money.

Most Respectfully,

Derrick Michael Reid


 DERRICK MICHAEL REID, ESQ.             Patents     

    Attorney at Law                     Trademarks

   26 La Costa Court                    Copyrights

Laguna Beach California 92651            Unfair Competition

    (949) 497-5384                      


WESTERN STATE UNIVERSITY, Fullerton, California.

JURIS DOCTOR, May 1981. Emphasis in Business Law.


Graduate study in Electrical Engineering in 1976. Graduate

studies covered digital systems, programming, and IC design.




Emphasis in material science, digital and analog circuit

analysis, integrated circuit design and processing, finite

state machines, computer architecture and software systems.

                     BAR MEMBERSHIPS

    California State Supreme Court.

    U.S. Eastern California District Court.

    U.S. Northern California District Court.

    U.S. Central California District Court.

    U.S. Southern California District Court.

    U.S. Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals.

    U.S. Federal Circuit Court of Appeals.

    U.S. Patent and Trademark Office.

                   WORK EXPERIENCE

Patent Lawyer, DERRICK MICHAEL REID, ESQ., Laguna Beach Ca.

My practice centers upon Patent, Trademark and Copyright applications, prosecution and infringement litigation

emphasizing services concerning high technology electronic

and computer components, communications circuits and systems, and computer circuits and systems. (Since 1985-2009, Now Semi-Retired)

Attorney at Law, LYON & LYON, Los Angeles Ca. My

responsibilities were related to Patent, Trademark and

Copyright applications, prosecution, and infringement cases

and trade secret cases. I developed a litigation computer

system for data base management in complex cases. (83-85)

Manager of IC Development, MATTEL ELECTRONICS, Hawthorne,

Ca. My duties comprised manpower management, hardware and

software procurement and department operating procedure

development to facilitate Integrated Circuit sustaining,

diagnostic and simulatory compiler design activities.(82-83)

Promoter, REIDESIGN, Newport Beach Ca. I engaged in venture

capital activities for a VLSI silicon design company based

on redesigning MSI into VLSI MOS technologies using silicon

compilers & semi-custom techniques. (81-83)

Senior Electronic Engineer, PERKIN-ELMER, Garden Grove, Ca.

My function was the design of disk drive micro electronics.

This required micro processor circuit design, firmware code

development and custom VLSI design with CAD tools such as

ICE development systems and logic circuit simulators.(80-82)

Electronic Engineer, BASIC FOUR, Tustin, Ca. I was

responsible for the developmental design of their mid-size

computer systems. These systems employed various

controllers, memories and CPUs which use random logic,

sequencer-firmware and micro processor technologies.(79-80)

Electronic Engineer, CALCOMP, Anaheim Ca, My duties included

CAD development of floppy disk drive electronic circuitry

which comprised stepper motor, transducer pickoff, read-

write and control circuitry.(77-79)

Electronic Engineer, LITTON GUIDANCE SYSTEMS, Woodland

Hills, Ca. I was responsible for the design of Cruise & F-16

inertial navigation electronic circuits such as gyro spin

supplies, precision torquers, synchro buffers, quantizers,

temperature controllers, resolver amplifiers and their

built-in test circuits in hybrid technologies.(76-77)

Electronic Engineer, ROCKWELL INTERNATIONAL, Downey, Ca. My

assignments included the design of digital and analog

computer interface circuits in a flight simulation

environment in which various computer systems exercised

space shuttle simulation instruments in closed loop

simulations for design verification. (75-76)



Mint will procure, install, and debug the production line.

As income and funds become available, the Depository will seek to build a secure depository juxtapose the mint in Ogden at a suitable location. Initially, gold bars should be kept in bank vaults until the secure depository is operational. Initially, Silver can be kept at the MINT under lock, and privately stored by DMR until ready, so that the MINT only has on hand sufficient stock for current production runs, to keep the stock at the MINT minimally to reduce possibility of theft. FINANCIER, TOOLCOMGR and DERRICK must trust each other, or forget it.

It appears that Johnson Mathey Refiners (JM) are centrally located in Utah, near Salt Lake, and I know JM produces at least kilo gold, 100oz Au, 400oz Au and 1000oz and 5000oz silver bars, 999 fine, (kilo gold and 1000oz Brand New Bars Offered at Tulving for example) and hence, our waste refinement, as well as all new stock, should be purchased directly from JM in Utah. Comex bars that are from other refiners can be swapped for JM comex bars, as well, as all are comex acceptable, and as such, UM and UD can maintain a 100% 999 JM input source representation to the public, as an exceedingly valuable marketing ploy, as everyone trusts the purity of JM bars.

Further still, as the production quantity increases, procured stock can be bought off the NY COMEX or directly from JM, and in both cases, we eliminate dealer commisions on the buys, that would otherwise have to be paid to the dealers, (Tulving Newport Beach CA). This direct purchasing off the COMEX of comex bars with JM bar swaps as needed, and from JM Utah directly, will ensure our buys at the lowest price available for raw stock, as JM central is conveniently located proximal to the Utah Mint and Utah Depository in Utah. It could not be more of a perfect setup as to proximal low-cost sourcing of raw stock, and this leads into convenient proximal mine buys in the out years in expansion phases II and III.


Key Aspects of the Combinational Synergy

1) Precision blank Manufacture. Others punch press producing poor quality bars, which are acceptable to the public, but we can do better, and this sets up the marketing to supply private mints when their stocks are low and the US government if it decides to offer 10oz certificates in the event of a fiat collapse. If ceramic die casting is used, Derrick will patent the process, with ToolcoMgr as the inventor, and TC as the assignee. This places the intellectual property rights to the production in TC at the Mint.

2) Low Cost Production. It is hoped that by avoiding precision plachet rolling of sheets, and by using plastic injection type operations, that the costs per bar to produce will be lower than all others producing punched 10oz bars.

3) 10oz Market Niche. For decades, mint capacity in the US has deteriorated. There are a few producing 10oz bars, most notably, NWTMint Pan-American silver US, Sunshine under A-MARK US (Tulving), American Precious Metal Exchange (APMEX) US, and First Majestic Canadian, plus a few minor other very small operations, all silver, and 10 Oz Gold Pamp Suisse carried in the US by NWTMint, Tulving, NCI. The lowest premiums are at 20% in large quantity for silver, 5% for gold. Hence, our target 15% silver and 5% gold will be competitive for the foreseeable future, and because of low mint capacity, all producers can sell very well, the pie is that big. We will not compete with the generic 1oz coins/bars, nor larger bars, as 10oz is preferred by the people in bullion buys in panic mode. There appears to be only 4 silver mint competitors, 3 in the US, and 1 gold foreign gold competitor Pamp Suisse.

4) 10oz Competitors. Not Many Mints having been destroyed by low comex prices. Known Current 10oz Gold and Silver Bar Producers/Suppliers. Our Bars is not have serial numbers, as a marketing ploy, as bullion 10oz bars are the fungible people's bullion, like eagles. We will become the only US 10oz Au bar mint.

====== Only the big refiners put serial numbers on 10oz bars.

First Majestic Silver 10oz

American Precious Metal Exchange (APMEX) Silver 10oz

Northwest Territorial Mint Silver 10oz Pan American Silver

Sunshine Mint Silver 10oz under A-MARK brand Tulving

Silvertowne Silver 10oz sold through APMEX

Heraeus silver 10oz BullionDirect CMX serial#


Pamp Suisse Gold 10oz CNI Tulving NWTM Serial# (45mm x 89mm)

Johnson-Matthey 10oz Gold serial# by MONEX & GoldLine

Haeraus 10oz gold by (Monex M Label serial#, bar design very poor)


5) Allocated for profit Depository. All other known depositories of real precious metals charge a storage fee and UD can do the same on a fee basis. However, nearly all members would want to have their metal working, and earn interest paid in species, and hence, the UD will be a HUGE MAGNET for bullion hoards about the country.

6) GOLD BUG support. The mint will be buying large comex bars, to drive up spot prices on the NY COMEX to defeat the perennial manipulative shorts. We will not buy on margin, but buy out right for cash, and take deliveries, squeezing the shorts, while procuring at the lowest price possible. As such, the GOLD BUG community will support our efforts over all other mints.

7) Honorarium. The Mint will make generic 10oz bars and custom 10oz bars, the back of which custom bars honor notable gold bugs, and hence, the Mint and Depository will become instantly internationally known and supported by the production of these HIGHLY prized custom bars, that provide immediate market recognition. This support is based upon DMR's personal associations developed over the many years studying the bullion markets.

8) Endorsement. The notable gold bugs will assay a couple of bars and report with glowing endorsements of our products. The quality, size, purity source, and endorsements of the bars will make them immediately acceptable by the purchasing public.

9) Marketing. Gold Bug Support, Endorsement, Honorarium, Web Pages will be a standard marketing approach. The primary marketing channels will be dealer/wholesale channels, that can be quickly established, when the MINT produces in quantity. Gold Bug sites will carry our bars as a continuous marketing ploy. It is anticipated that no special additional advertising will be needed. The product and the gold bug support will be sufficient. Our marketing effort will be slick at a low profile. The purchasing public will find and buy our bars at low prices at good quality.

10) Market Share Capture. Market share will be acquired through wholesaling. The use of gold bug sites and established dealers/ wholesales will be had at wholesale prices. The profit margin will be sufficient to capture as big a market share as the production quantity will enable. It’s a numbers game. Low production costs, high quantity, good quality, and very selected wholesale outlets will provide capturing of a market share. This is not much of a concern in these days of financial uncertainty as all producers can win big.

11) Market Share Protection. Auctions set the retail prices enabling all to make a good buck. Café Bullion, DMR's special little baby, will hunt down NEW 10oz bars sold by other mints offered retail at wholesale prices, through on-line buy-it-now auctions, such as ebay, but mostly through many other new bullion specific auction web sites, and, DMR will then place in quantity our bars at low prices at auction side-by-side with lower prices, effectively denying retail operations to the other mints in public auctions, being careful to always sale for a minimal profit to avoid unfair competition charges. Mints will sale through their on-line sites, but at retail prices. That is not a concern. It is the offering of wholesale prices at the retail level, on public auction cites, by the mints and their wholesalers that is the concern, and café bullion will target those sales with extreme competition, to stop other mints from retailing operations at wholesale prices in public auctions. The depository will maintain a small store of finished product recorded at a known basis prices, and when other mints decide to enter general retail at wholesale prices, at public auction, to our disadvantage, I will strike and strike hard, like clock work, and dump product, at a minimal profit, to stop all mints from retailing at wholesale prices on public auctions. Mints, wholesalers, and retailers must all win here, through competitive but parallel trade channels, and any "unfair competition" through mint retailing at wholesale prices at public web site auction WILL NOT BE TOLERATED in our 10oz market niche. After a few target dumps, they will get it, get it quick, and stop destroying retail market prices for our new 10oz bars. DMR will try to keep the 10oz market fair for all Mints and their wholesalers and retailers.

12) Personal Licenses. DMR will acquire personal licenses from the gold bug notables to use their names in connection with the production of precious metal products, and shall extend such license to the mint, depository, and café bullion.

13) Inclusive Operations. The Mint only produces for the Depository. The Depository only acquires finished product from the Mint or members. Café Bullion only buy bullion for the members and only sales Depository products.

14) Magnet for the Wealthy. The for-profit depository will be a huge magnet for the well-to-do, to preserve their wealth, as they are really in PANIC mode under today's uncertainty, which is projected to either be a continuous deflationary cycle into depression, or under OBAMA, a stabilization of growth, but with hyper-inflation, and under either scenario, BULLION will rocket, until fiat is abolished. I cant see it any other way.

15) Members. Members, except DMR's tiny hoard, and ToolcoMgr, should put up at least 10M$, and the number of members shall be limited to 15 to avoid security laws reporting requirements. All members must be US citizens, with valid social security numbers, and all incomes will be reported to the IRS for tax purposes.

16) Redemption. Members can pull out their money and bullion, in either form, under a quarterly 90 day redemption notice.

17) On Line Sales. UM, UD, and CB will create one web site as an expense to UD, all three married and joined at the hip, so to speak, in the public's eye, each having a separate web page therein. This web site will have links and displays to current spot prices, gold bug sites, UM dealers and UM wholesalers, with recitations of endorsements, and like general marketing information. CB will offer for sale on line, 1oz sovereign (eagle) coins at competitive prices capturing premiums for good profits as an exclusive 1oz Au Ag eagle coinage outlet. CB will also concurrently, offer 10oz UM bars but at very high retail prices, to merely broadcast suggested manufacturer's retail bar prices, so as to encourage wholesales and the resulting retail of the produced bars by and through others. Hence, and effectively, CB will sale 1oz coins on-line, while merely suggesting bar retail prices, as the purchasing public, through the links to gold bug site, UM's dealers, and UM's wholesalers, will see that the UM-UD-CB on line bar prices are higher than the gold bug sites carrying only the respective custom bars, and, dealers and wholesalers carrying only the generic bars, and will not buy bars in quantity through CB, unless, buying in low quantities but paying very high prices, or, when the physical retail market becomes so tight in supplies, that the public directly purchases from CB in quantity at those very high on line retail prices. As the gold bug sites will only be selling their respective custom bars, and as the dealers and wholesalers will only be selling generic bars, there would be no direct competition between the Gold bugs' sell of custom bars and the dealers/wholesalers sales of generic bars. Hence, CB will offer on line only 1oz eagles and pricy 10oz generic bars, but with links to the gold bug sites for custom bars and to wholesalers for generic bars.

18) Wholesaling. The primary sales mechanism will be wholesaling of 10oz bars through dealers, such as Tulving (Newport Beach CA), who DMR has an on-going relation buying raw stock, and through gold bug retail sites (Investment Rarities, GATA, LemetropoleCafe). While the CB will offer 10oz bar to the purchasing public at very high prices on line, UD will use available stock to give priority of stock to the selected dealers/wholesalers/gold-bugs so that UD remains at all times a reliable supplier.

19) Gold Bug 0% Royalties. All endorsing gold-bug sites (IR, GATA, Lemetropolecafe) will license the use of their respective names under a royalty free license, for the use of their names on respective custom bars, which provides a 0% royalty, which is preferred, that is, a royalty free license, for accounting simplicity. The gold bug sites will only sale their respective custom bars, and hence, no royalty should be nor will it be paid, as the gold bugs sites will be the exclusive sellers of their own custom bars, thus extinguishing any anticipated royalty right. Dealers and Wholesalers will only sell generic bars, and hence, there will be no royalties paid whatsoever, but, the gold bugs site will have exclusive rights to their respective custom bars. However, UM must support the gold bug sites, and obtain market recognition on an on going basis. Hence, UD will strive to provide product to the gold bug sites, at or below spot prices at all times, and preferably enabled when buying large stocks on the spot dips, so that, the gold bug sites can always make a very good profit on direct retail sales and their fund raisers for all custom bars produced. UM, UD, and CB will derive continuous market recognition and exposure from the gold bug sites on an ongoing basis, as a form of continuous advertising, only if the UD continuously supplies the gold bug sites with product at very good prices, hence, the quid pro quo, in perpetuity.  

20) COMEX Squeez. CB will buy comex bars and UD will take delivery in order to facilitate a squeez of the perennial manipulative COMEX shorts on the COMEX, a hot bed of commerical corruption, to the delight of the gold bugs and the army of gold bug notable followers. When ever such comex bars are not JM bars, such comex bars will be sold and JM comex bars purchased so that all Mint products use JM as the source of pure 999 metal to enhance the marketability of the 10oz produced bars, and such comex bars can be swapped through JM, or sold in auctions and then JM bars purchased instead, or retained possibly in the UD as deep long term storage for later bulk sales used as a mere bullion for-profit trade, for quick profits, as allocated to particular members.

21) Production Packaging. Each bar is individually packaged in a transparent plastic slip with a small certification purity sheet therein, with the plastic slip sealed sealing in the certificate with the bar. Bars do not have serial numbers as a marketing ploy as small bullion like coins are fungible items. 10 bars are packed to a box with some minimal bubble wrap. The small purity sheets represent 999 JM source. Partial boxes due to partial member's stock are stored or sold as individual bars. A Box does not mixed member's allocated stock. Each box will have a production label serial number affixed. 10 boxes are packed to a case of 100 bars which can have mixed member's stock therein, for 1000oz, with the 10 inclusive serial number printed on the cases, as a standard wholesale lot. 10 cases are stored on a pallett of 10,000oz for shipping out the back doors of the Depository. Wholesalers and gold bugs buy by the case.

22) Initial Product Line.


Silver Bars by end of 1st half 2009, target 1000 bars/day.

10oz Ag LeMetroPoleCafe (LePatron)

10oz Ag Investment Rarities (Butler/Cook)

10oz Ag Generic Dealers/Wholesalers

Gold Bar by end of 2nd half 2009, target 200 bars/day.

10oz Au LeMetroPoleCafe (Midas)

10oz Au GATA (Murphy/Powell)

10oz Au Generic Dealers/Wholesalers

23) Termination. The Mint, its assigns, successors, etc. can with a 1 year notice to quit, quit producing for the depository and/or engage in direct sales outside of depository operations, but with a 5% royalty rate on all sales by the mint on such sales until the year 2030, a typical patenting period, while granting a royalty free license to the Depository on any patents and production trade secrets acquired by the Mint in the production of any precious metal products including only Au Ag Pt and Pd products.

24) Profit Participation. It is assumed that Financier will hold an interest in the Mint. Hence, Financier would obtain a share from the Mint operations. It is also assumed that Financier, as he said, "if I go in, I will go in big", will in fact go in big, and this is where Financier can concentrate his personal hoard for wealth protection, in the US, and be able to multiply the same. Financier, having a share in the Mint, and being a primary member, going in big, will obtain the lion's share of the profits. Generally, profits are split 1/3 for the Mint, 1/3 for the members, and 1/3 for procurement, storage, and sales, of the later 1/3 of which, there is a division of profits 2/9 for the UD and 1/9 for CB operations.

25) Mint Membership. Members are individuals. ToolcoMgr can become a member at any dollar amount, (like DMR and Financier), and can do so by contributing funds or by retaining some of the Mint's profits in the depository to any extent desired. All other members must put up a minimum of 10M$ to join the Depository.

26) Responsibilities. ToolcoMgr will be responsible for procuring, installing, debugging, and operating the production line. Derrick will be responsible for procurement and sales, which combination is necessary for instantaneous buy/sell orders to ensure capturing of profits at time of buy/sell regardless of spot prices. As such, Derrick will be responsible for maintaining the depository books and providing members accurate quarterly accounting of their cash and bullion. Financier, as a primary member, will be responsible for monitoring Derrick's books (mostly through hired accountants and auditors), and responsible for monitoring the entire operation, and providing direction as to hoard accumulation levels.

27) Taxes. Each member will be required to pay their own taxes on income from UD operations. All incomes will be reported to the IRS. As this business strikes at the heart of the US fiat money system,  you bet the US government will be all over the UD operations with their IRS thugs and extortionists. As loyal Americans, all members will be required to pay their own respective taxes.

28) Future Operations. In Phase II a refinery is built to increase our profit margin to take smelt from the miner's smelters and mills. In Phase III mines are purchased for insuring a continuous supply of metal ore for further increase profit margins through vertical integration. Phase III would likely be a two phase approach, first buying mills and smelters and purchasing the ore from the mines, and then buying mines themselves. Then, in a final phase, we buy exploration companies and go prospecting to find the next mother lode.


Utah Depository Allocated Accounting Methology

The Utah Depository (UD) operation can be a POOLED operation, where all member's bullion is lumped together as one. This provide simplicity in accounting. In a pool form of operation, all members share equally in all gains made equally based upon their contributions and current holdings at the time of contribution, and all effectively then own a simple "percentage" of the all stocks, including raw stock, mint stock WIP, finished stock, AR, and cash in the UD bank. The operation of the UD is preferably an allocated operation, where all member's bullion is segregated by bullion bars (segregated by serial numbers) or coinage (contained in segregated coinage boxes) and finished bars (segregated by production serial number labels on shipment boxes (10x10oz/box), as examples. Members would most definitely prefer an allocated accounting. That's Mine!!

As the allocation operation is more difficult, accounts would need to be set up to track both cash for cash accounting and metal for metal transactions, including UD raw comex stock, UM raw comex stock WIP, Scrap loss UM, and finished stock. Hence, a cash basis metal weight accounting books would have fourple entries for cash basis transactions involving all metal adjustments, one double entry debit/credit for cash basis for all cash transaction, and another for metal weights, (metal having a basis and weight assigned) where the metals are effectively considered currencies in different forms. In addition, a spread sheet will be maintain for each member to record all fourple entry metal adjustment transactions as a database for the basis-metal accounting books.

DMR will select which stock from which member will be processed through the mint, and hence, DMR can unevenly distribute processing gains to members. Here, DMR and Financier, (assuming he goes in big to stock up the mint), can have their metal cycled more often than late coming members, as an ongoing reward for startup contributions. DMR must have discretion to buy/sell stocks based upon market timing to maximize returns. DMR must have discretion to allocate processing of stock for enabling allocated bullion holdings and accounting. DMR will seek to provide all members with good returns, but will favor early contributors, where convenient to do so based upon stocks on hand. So, members must realize that their bullion will be cycled, and hence, their gains, controlled by DMR, and that the gains would necessarily be uneven across all members. This will enable DMR to "cheat", that is, favor some members over others, a necessarily flexibility in allocated operations in order to track allocated processing. For purposes of currency (cash and metal) accounting, when a member contributes bullion, rather than cash, the bullion is assigned a basis value based upon spot prices to establish a basis of the bullion contributed for maintaining the books.  

THE BASIS-METAL ACCOUNTS, FOURPLE entry accounting, to track cash basis transactions and gains relating to metal transactions, (FMV based upon spot at time of contribution or procurement) and the metal transactions (metal in ounces), concurrently, for accurate accounting and instant reporting. All transactions are recorded on a member's spread sheet for each member as input data to the basis-metal accounting books having the basis-metal accounts, and these adjustments will be recorded in sum on a master spread sheet for the depository using master account books.

DOUBLE ACCOUNTING (in one basis-metal accounting book, one quick book file), for allocated accounting for the Utah Mint (UM) and Utah Depository (UD) and Members. Café Bullion (CB) does not hold stock, and is only a distributorship operation.



Cash Basis Tracking (In Dollars)    Metal Tracking (In Ounces)

   FOR EACH MEMBER                   FOR EACH MEMBER


Member Buys  debit  ($) UD 0/       Member Metal  debit  (oz) E

Member Basis credit ($) UD          Member Stock  credit (oz) A

=========                           =====

Member Basis debit  ($) UD 1/       Member Metal  debit  (oz) E

Member Stock credit ($) UD          Member Stock  credit (oz) A

=========                           =====

Member Stock debit  ($) UD          Member stock  debit  (oz) A

Raw Stock    credit ($) UD 3/       Raw Stock     credit (oz) A

=========                           =====

Raw Stock    debit  ($) UD          Raw Stock     debit  (oz) A

Mint Stock   credit ($) UM          Mint Stock    credit (oz) A

=========                           =====

Mint Stock   debit  ($) UM          Mint Stock    debit  (oz) A

Mint Loss    credit ($) UM 2/5/     Mint Loss     credit (oz) A

=========                           =====

Mint Stock   debit  ($) UM          Mint Stock    debit  (oz) A   

Finish Stock credit ($) UD          Finish Stock  credit (oz) A        

=========                           =====

Finish Stock debit  ($) UD 4/       Finish Stock  debit  (oz) A

Sold Stock   credit ($) UD 5/       Sold Stock    credit (oz) E


This keeps track of each member's metal, and metal cash basis, and is integrated with UD master account books, and is necessary for an ability to buy/sale with basis knowledge for assuring profits.

0/ The depository procures raw bullion stock on behalf of members.

Each member will be required to pay their own taxes on any gains from operations.

1/ Members contribute bullion. The bullion is assigned a FMV in cash as an accounting basis based upon COMEX NY spot price for Bullion or Tulving for 1oz coins at time of contribution.

2/ During production at the Mint, metal will be lost, and is called "vaporization", and includes vaporization, theft, and consumed. This loss metal will be tracked and accounted for on going monitoring. When "sweeping the floor", contaminated metal and trash collections will be sent from the Mint to a refiner, maybe once every 90days. The refiner takes a cut of the refined metal as payment, and returns to the Mint refined metal for use. Preferably, waste refinement is not a cash transaction, but a "metal" loss transaction. This metal loss is assigned every 90days, when an audit of the Mint stocks and Depository stocks are had.  

3/ Raw stock is that held in UD. Raw stock become Mint stock upon shipment of raw stock to the Mint. Raw stock is broken down by subaccounts for tracking 5000oz Raw Ag, 1000oz Raw Ag, 100oz Raw Ag and Au 10oz finish Au Ag 1oz(eagle coins Au Ag), plus any specials, such as 32.15oz Kilo Au bars or Numismatic 1 oz coins. Production is by "runs" each on which processing a portion of a particular member's hoard.

4/ For ease of accounting, all finished 10oz bar will be assigned 10oz even when slightly over, 0.001 oz, for ease of accounting and sales, the 0.001oz will show up as a "loss", and hence, when monitoring for theft, this "loss" will be considered.

5/ Stock sold and Mint loss are considered for accounting as cost of goods sold (COGS).

Utah Depository MASTER ACCOUNTS,


TRACKING OF ALL DEPOSITORY CASH and Metal Basis (metal Currency)


Member Equity   debit ($)E /6 Cash Contributions (distributions)

Member CashAcct credit($)A /9        


Member Equity   debit ($)E    Metal Contributions (distributions)

Members Metal   credit($)A      Make Metal Transaction Entry


UD Revenues     debit  ($)I /10        CASH SALES

UD Receivables  credit ($)A


UD Receivables  debit  ($)A

UD Bank Account credit ($)A /7


UD Bank Account debit  ($)A /11 /12   PROFIT SPLIT FROM SALES

Utah Mint       credit ($)X      Mint takes 1/3 in profit.

Café Bullion    credit ($)X   Café Bullion takes 1/9 in profit.

UD Income Acct  credit ($)A    Depository takes 2/9 in profit.

Member Expense  credit ($)X  Members take 1/3 in allocated profit.

Member COGS     credit ($)X /5 /13 Members get back basis of COGS.  

Member Income   debit  ($)E /17 UD Member Expense = Member Income

Member CashAcct credit ($)A       Income  Cash from sales

Member Metal    debit  ($)A     Make Metal Sale Transaction Entry

Member CashAcct credit ($)A /13   COGS Returned  Cash from Sales


Member CashAcct debit  ($)A /13 DMR manages UD, and procures stock

Member Metal    credit ($)A    on behalf of members on the buys.

========================         Make Metal Buy Transaction Entry

UD Income Acct  debit  ($)A

UD Expenses     credit ($)X 1/14


UD Fees         debit  ($)I /15

UD Income Acct  credit ($)A


UD Interest     debit  ($)I /16 Interest on UD Bank Account,

UD Bank Account credit ($)A    and all Member Cash Accounts.


UD Bank Account debit  ($)A    Split of Interest Income

UD Income Acct  credit ($)A    2/9 UD

Utah Mint       credit ($)X    1/3 UM

Café Bullion    credit ($)X    1/9 CB

Member Dividend credit ($)X    1/3 Members Dividend


Member Dividend debit  ($)E

Member CashAcct credit ($)A   Distributed Dividend to Members


/6 Member contribution in cash as an equity account.

/7 From sales of finished bar sales, and all sales through the distribution are deposited in the UD master bank account.

/8 Café Bullion sales all Depository bullion, and deposit all receivables in the Depository cash general bank account.

/9 Members cash Acct is an asset account

/10 UD Revenues is an income account.

/11 UD Bank account is an asset account

/12 UD Bank account payments to UM, CB, and UD is an adjustment to revenues, as income to UM, CB, and UD.

/13 Members cash are assets of the members and accounted for as asset accounts. Upon contribution/distribution or sales or buys of metal, a like fourple entry of metal tracking is made.

Members will have accounts including equity contribution, (Metal and cash) Income equity account, cash account, and metal account.

/14 Depository MASTER ACCOUNTS include UD expenses. Mint and distributorship will separately keep track of their respective expenses.

/15 Nonparticipating member can simply store their bullion in the depository for a fee as income in an income account for fees, as income to the depository paid by the nonparticipating members.

/16 The depository can set up member cash accounts, bank savings accounts, each paying interest into the general UD bank account, and the UD will then share "all interest earned" 1/3 for Mint, 1/9 for Café Bullion, 2/9 for the Depository, and 1/3 for members as a dividend, on earned dollars in all of the bank accounts.

17/ In the Master Books, Each member's accounts are maintained.

Member Equity         Equity Account

Member metal          Asset Accounts broken into Ag Au subaccounts

Member cash account   Asset Account

Member Income         Equity Account (Member Income from Sales)

Member Dividend       Equity Account (Member Income from Interest)

At the end of each quarter, statements are generated for each member. At the beginning of each quarter, Member Income and Member Dividend, both being income, realized from sales or interest, are zeroed and then added to the member's equity, which should then equal present member cash in Member CashAcct and metal basis. Hence, members can track their metal position, cash position, their total value in dollars, and the gains for each quarter. When entering a sale using a UD member expense and COGS, another double entry is made assigning UD member expense to UD, as member income. In this manner the Depository income and expenses can be monitored as are the members' income from sales. When entering a metal contribution/distribution, or a sale, or a buy, for a member in the Master book, like entries are made in the Cash Basis-Metal Ounces tracking account complex. While this all may seem complicated, it is nonetheless standard accounting using conventional account types, equity, income, expense, asset, and liabilities. A CPA would be able to take this accounting scheme and understand it. END

Aero Kraft Tool Company, Ogden Utah,

Utah Mint Division

Gold and Silver 10oz Bar Production Line Proposal

0.0) Production Line Switching.

The production line switching process occurs when switching the production line from gold to silver, and from silver to gold.

The relative number of production is 200 for silver and 8 for gold. So this process has a minimal affect on profits, as it is generally, non-recurring, and only need be switch a couple of times per year. Here, gold is not kept at the Mint, but stored in bank vault, initially. When it time to do a gold run, we pull the gold out of storage, ship to Utah, hire a guard with a loaded shotgun, to baby-sit the gold hoard during times of gold production. That is, security for gold production is increased, only during times of gold production. Silver is so heavy, that security is not as much a concern.

0.1) Production Line Switching considerations. The production line will be mixed. When the mint melts, the mint can have dedicated pour cups, gold or silver. The pour cups are metal specific and are sized to melt 100 oz gold bars and, 1000oz silver and 5000oz silver bar.

Equipment List:


Furnace for heating Cups

Pouring Machine?

Au Pour Cup

Ag Pour Cup

0.2) The dies will be metal specific, possibly microscopic particles embedded in the dies from the stamping process, but we'll see. The vibro polishing machine can be purged and prepared for the next type of metal.

Comment: What microscopic particles? The dies are metal specific, so gold and silver particles are not a concern. Must be referring to steel debris generated that would degrade the dies over time? There will be some transfer of particles from silver being struck

in the die, so trying to use the same “blocking” die for both gold and silver may not be feasible. Of course, in the polishing phase

all foreign matter may be removed, hence negating the need for a second set of dies.  

Equipment List


Vibro Polishing Machine

1.0 Pour Molding of POURED Bars

Here, liquid metal is directly poured into multicavity mold for producing blank bars.

1.1) The line needs to melt the 100 oz gold bars, and 1000oz and 5000oz silver bars for pouring into multi-cavity permanent molds to form our POURED 10 oz bar.

Because the gold weights more than silver, the height of the silver POURED bars will be slightly taller than the gold blank bar. The question becomes, how many cavities per mold?

We can probably start with 10 ( 10 oz ) cavities, or possibly 20. ( 4 rows of 5 ) To pour 100 oz , we may have to melt 200 oz to yield a 10 cavity pour, with metal residue in the pour cup and runners to feed the cavities.

10 bars per pour seems low, again production through put is key.

25 may be good. 40x25=1000 bars. The yield should be maximized. There is concern of contamination. We will use JM 9999 gold and 999 silver large comex bar as input stock. If we can prevent contamination during the run, we minimize having to refine the excess run off during production, which minimization enhance the ultimate profit margins.

Does this mean that 50% will need to be re-refined?

That is huge and cuts into the profit margin. Can this excess simply be throw back into the pour cups and used without refining?

Equipment List


Gold POURED Bar Molds

Silver POURED Bar Molds

Comment: The more bars per pour the better, as through put is key.

2.0) Blank Bar Processing

After the metal is poured into POURED bars, the bars are pressed by a blocking press using a blocking die, one for gold and one for silver, into BLOCKED bars. Then, the BLOCKED bars are sized by a prefinishing sizing press using a sizing die to size the blocked bars into SIZED bars. The SIZED bars are then deburred and polished into BLANKS.

A "blank" is a term of art that is a pre-made item that is then struck using dies. Hence, a blank will be a polished and deburred bar sized HWL with rounded corners, per the JM 10oz bar, and fed into a striking press using a striking die.


The poured bars are blocked by the blocking press and blocking die.   


The blocked bars are then sized using the sizing press and sizing die.

2.3) Polishing Sized bars into Blanks

The SIZED bars will be weighed and adjusted to exact weight in preparation for forming into BLANKS. We target the SIZED bars to be 10.01 ounces, to allow for some lost of metal during polishing and deburring. This polishing is a final blank preparation operation. Polishing and deburring of the blanks should be had prior to striking the bars.

Comment: The weight will be adjusted.

It’s important that the rough blank be sized before it goes into the stamping operation. This way, the engraving detail will play no part in weight fluctuation. If it weighs 1 troy once going into the stamping operation, then after it is struck, with whatever detail in the finish die, the weight does not change. So, the blanks can be manually weighed, then ground or machined to the ideal weight. This machining can be eliminated or minimized after adjustments are made in the pouring process to account for any discrepancy after the bars solidify, but in the beginning it will be trial and error.

Yes, minimization is the key to keeping costs low, and this polishing will generate waste metal that can be refined.

Deburring includes any necessary intermediate polishing that should now be specified. The bars could placed in a deburring machine, and several types are available, but tumbling machine will not be used for polishing and de-burring.

Comment. The blank bars should be polished to the extent necessary prior to stamping, and not after stamping. The blank bars are polished here only to extent necessary, as there should be no need to polish again after stamping. The stamping process should not destroy the polish, but should provide the final mirror like surfaces by stamping. The stamping provides the desired "mirror" like surface on the bars in recessed areas. A mirror like surface is a marketing consideration that is a necessary marketing requirement. A mirror like finish is highly desirable and necessary. It would seem that if the blank bar is roughly polished first, and the stamping is done precisely resulting in a final mirror like finish, then there should normally be no deburring or polishing required after stamping.  

2.4) Blank polishing in advance of finishing

We need to finish stamp a mirror polished blank, the finish die will also have a mirror finish on all surfaces that contact the

Blank. There can be deviations from this, if a matted surface is desired in any recessed area of the detail the die would not require “mirror” polishing in those areas. It’s important that the die be near perfect to avoid transferring any defects to the final finish, especially recessed areas of the product. You can’t polish out those recesses.  

A Matt surface will not generally be used, but can be selectively used. The matted surface would be characterized as a fabricated "rough" surface, and as such, the height-depth of the matted should be exceedingly small.

There are two types of surfaces, (lets keep it simple).


1) Front and Back recessed mirror like surfaces, which are RECESSED surfaces, generally not touched by human hands during production handling or by user stacking;

2) Front and Back lettering standing proud above the mirror surface, and here, the top and side surfaces of the standing proud lettering can be matted or rough and simply not polished mirror like surfaces;

3) Edges on the sides, which can be rough or matted, and enable precise edge on placement for stacking of multiple stack side-by-side, juxtaposed, and enables handling of the bar without human hands actually scratching the mirror like recessed surfaces; and

4) borders on the front and back, which can be rough or matted, and enable precise vertical stacking, one on top of another.

The borders that surround the bars, front and back, standing proud, perhaps just a tad higher than the lettering so that when stacking the bars, the lettering is not scratched retaining the original the rough or matted top surface of the standing proud lettering, that enables precise vertical stacking of bars without undue scratching of the lettering and mirror surfaces, (side edges and borders will be scratched over time from simple handling and stacking, and need not have mirror like surfaces).

Marketing includes providing the width and length of bars matched to two 1oz silver eagles, usually stored in plastic mint tubes. The bars, (gold or silver) can be stacked vertically in perfect alignment, having the same WxL. Multiple stacks can be placed side-by-side abutting by the edges. The stacks can be enhanced with the placement of two plastic mint tubes of coins on top the bars, which hit the borders and not the lettering, and certainly not the recessed mirror like surface. In this manner, a private individual can store their 1oz coins and their 10oz bars in a box, very compactly and nicely, without damaging the mirror like surfaces or the lettering. This is another core consideration for marketing.

Equipment List


Deburring Machine

3.0) Final Stamping (striking of the blanks).

Final stamping is the last of three stamping processes, block, sized, and struck.

The bars are pressed by stamping in a progressive stamping operation. The blanks are struck in a stamping machine, a striking press, to strike the front and back of the blanks into struck bars.

3.1) The question here is whether we will need to pre-heat the rough bars in order to form them as a progressive stamping-forging process. We are not sure how malleable cold silver will be, but we can get around that by heating them in a furnace, or increasing the pressing weight in tonnage.

Comment: Forging press implies additional heating step and energy consumption. This metallurgy has been my concern from the start, in that, we lack the gold and silver metallurgy experience. If JM can PUNCH PRESS 10oz bars with a mirror like finish, it would seem that progressive stamping, each stamping forming the metal further, could do the same, if properly design.  

3.2) Ideally, the process would cold form the bars. As through put is key, we need three stamping presses, that could be in the order of 100 ton pressure each. We just do not know, and this must be determined.

Comment: If this is a three step stamping process, and through put is key, then does the swapping out of die in the machine cause production delays and limits through put. Through put is the most important consideration, less direct impact on profits, and swapping out of die might cause minor misalignments, Derrick does not know.

Equipment List:


A first blocking press for a blocking die.

A Gold Blocking Die for gold bars.

A Silver Blocking die for silver bars.

A second sizing press for a sizing die.

A Silver sizing die for silver bars.

A gold sizing die for gold bars.

A third striking press for a striking die for the detail.

A gold striking die, having a common front die plate and an interchangeable back die plate.

A silver striking die, having a common front die plate and an interchangeable back die plate.

Comment: What is a blocking die, and what is it used for?

The POURED bars will be a little taller than finish size, narrower, and shorter. This way we can press the blank to the ideal size (squeeze it) to form close to finish size.

What is a pre-finish SIZING die, and what is it used for?

The pre-finish sizing die will press the blocked to form ( finish size, L,H,W) Then it will go to deburring, weigh-in, polishing, then visual inspection before striking of the blanks into struck bars.

What is the reason for both the Block pressing and Size pressing? Is that double pressing used to avoid FORGING, which is the use of heat to mold metal, as the process of cold stamping required more energy and pressure? Is it a trade off between avoiding heating by using two "sizing" types of operation? If the poured bars are pretty close, then can we avoid the blocking press operation, and use only one sizing press for both blocking and sizing, which seem to be the same type of operation? Explanation is requested why we need both a blocking and sizing operation, which are inherently the same.

What is a finish STRIKING die, and what is it used for?

Striking the blank for finishing in detail. It may need multiple strikes, not sure.

Multiple strikes are a big no-no in minting, less you get double vision, so, avoid double striking like the plague.

Comment: The backing of bars change in a run. A Run is made using a generic Utah Mint Logo back, or a flat polished back, or an honorarium back, while the front stays the same. Where in the blocking die, pre-finish die, and finish die is the swapping out of the backing determined.

We will have a die with a generic base, and the top half will be the interchangeable side of the die.

Three presses are not absolutely needed during the initial production line debug, as one press can perform all three functions, block, prefinish size, finish strike. It would be preferred of course, if only one press and one die is used for each back on respective production runs, and that, the bottom or top PART of the die(s) be swapped by production runs.

Ideally I would have three presses, BUT we can do it with one press during the debugging process of the production line, however, die changes, machine problems, and other unknowns will slow production, so the final configuration of the production line will have three presses, after alpha testing.   

3.3) The number of cavities in each die will be the same for gold and the same for silver, and should be the same for both, but the number of cavities needs to be determined. If the metals are not very malleable, then we may have to increase the pressing capacity, for example, a 250 ton press.

Comment: It is better to increase the pressing tonnage to increase the number of bars pressed, as through put is key. If it takes, let’s say a 25 ton press to “strike” a silver dollar, we may need 250 tons to coin a 10 oz bar ( generally speaking). Of course, I’m assuming when coins are minted, it’s cold formed.  

Yes, I believe US Mint cold strike the blanks. But that is my best guess. You can see very small burs on the edges of US minted coins.

4.0) Final Polishing, (if any is needed).

The last step would be final polish of the edges and border.

Comment. A mirror like surface is required, and such a surface generated when stamping. Final polish would only be the border surrounding the detail, minor scratches from handling in the finish phase of stamping.

DMR does have some experience in casting precious metals into jewelry items and polishing. The mirror like polish by a polishing wheel may be able to remove scratches in the mirror like surface, but generally, only the edges and borders would be subject to mishandling scratches. It is not expected that polishing the mirror like surface would be required, only the edges and borders, if any. Final polishing is after striking. I note that even US Minted coins have very small burs on them after stamping, particularly and only on the edges.

Equipment List


Final Polisher.

Would this be a simple urge (jeweler's red color clay for polishing precious metals), for use on a high speed polishing wheel station?

5.0) Profit Consideration.

5.1) Aero Kraft Tool Company believes bar processing can be done for $5 per bar, at 1000 bars per day. This is great news.

5.2) Minimal Profit Margin, 5$/bar. Now, silver just launched from 10/oz to 11.50/oz, and at a minimum 15% margin, that means that the gross margin per bar just went to (10oz bar x 11.50/oz x 10oz/bar) just went to 17.25$ gross profit per bar. As gross profits can be split, 1/3 for production (owner), 1/3 for members(Financier), and 1/3 for the sales (DERRICK), what that means is that the 5$/bar just went up 5.75$/bar gross profit for production. Owner, do you fully understand this. Do you realize the same, if silver launches to 30$/oz by 4/30/09, my current prediction? If that happened, production gross margins would go up to 15$ each bar. So, at 10$/zo at 5$ gross margin, at 400K Ag bars and 16K Au bars, provides a gross margin of 4.3M$ for production. Now, if gold and silver move as I expect, that is a 3x silver to 16M$ and 1.5 gold for 10M$, meaning that, the 4.3M$ gross profit per year for production just went up to 26M$/year profit.

It’s a winner baby!!! (only if you can do it for 5$/bar, minimum)


Blank Bar Specification


Weight: 10.015  0.015 oz, 0.15% = 0.3% 311.5013gm  0.46655gm

Length: 90.0mm  0.0450mm at 0.1% = 3.5433107in  0.00177165in

Width: 45.0mm  0.0225mm at 0.1% = 1.7716535in  0.00088583in

Height: 07.4mm  0.0037mm at 0.1% = 0.2913386in  0.00014567in

Radius: 6.909mm  0.007mm at 0.1% = 0.272in 0.0003in at 4-Corners

Purity: .999 using JM comex bars with assay monitoring.

Flatness:  0.01mm across both top surface and bottom surface.

Roughness: The blank bar has the same roughness over all surfaces.

Break: Radius on edges of top and bottom borders.


Struck Bar Specification


Length: 90mm, Not affected by striking

Width: 45mm, Not affected by striking

Weight: 10.015oz and Purity Not affected by striking. Weight is trimed down to exactly 10.000 during polishing of the blank.

Corner Radius: 6.909mm Not affected by striking

Finished Height: 7.5mm

Engraving Height: 0.05mm front and back surfaces

Recessed Depth: 0.15mm front and back surfaces.

Strike Height: 0.2mm front and back surfaces.

Border Width: 2mm wide running along the periphery. The border provide a cavity to receive metal minimizing outward metal flow during the strike. Border Height: The Engraving height stands 0.2mm proud above the recessed surface. Lettering Height: The Engraving height stands 0.2mm proud above the recessed surface. Engraving Percentage: 25% of borders area plus lettering areas, and 75% is the recessed area, of the total surface areas, front and back. The 25%:75% ratio povides a 0.05mm:0.15mm engraving height to recess depth ratio. When the designs of the lettering is known, a computation, or emprical testing can be had to adjust the recess depth and engraving height, that is in total the strike height, in relation to the engraving percentage. This can be done, by making the dies flat and in steps, to arrive at the correct strike height, which should be 2mm or greater for visual recognition. Anti-conterfiting: Generic bar Back has Utah Mint repeated and slanted at a unique angle, eg 32 degrees, and one slanted "Utah Mint" on back of an honorarium bar. Engraving Height grows up during striking from blank 7.4mm to struck 7.5mm on the edges between the borders top opposing surfaces as metal is pushed into border cavities 0.05mm higher in the borders on each front and back surfaces, as the recess surface is pushed down 0.15mm for a strike height of 0.2mm. Front of bars space [______] for private serial #s.Roughness: Side edges, borders, and proud standing lettering are rough, and the recess areas are smooth preferably "mirror like".


                    Backup to Specifications


Stike Specification Computation


Bar Volume = Slab Volume - 4 Inverse Corner Volumes

w/D = v   =  H x W x L  -   H x 4 x (1-/4)R2

29666.79261mm3 = H x 90mmx45mm - H x (4-)R2  

29666.79261mm3 = H (4050mm2- (4-)R2).

H =  29666.79261mm3 /(4050mm2 - (0.858407346)R2)

R = [4050mm2 - 29666.79261mm3/H]/(0.858407346)]

H = 7.4mm  R= 6.909mm


Surface Aera A = Height H x Periphery P + 2 (Strike Area a)

A= HxP+2a = HxP + 2(WL - (RxR -R2))

a = W x L - (RxR - R2) = WxL - (1-)R2


a = 4050mm2 - 0.858407346(6.909mm)2

a = 4050mm2 - 40.97545746mm2 = 4009.024543mm2


Perifery, P = 2L + 2W - 2R = 2(90mm) + 2(45mm) - 2R

P = 270mm - 2R = 270mm - 2(3.141592654)R

P = 270mm - 6.28305308 (6.909mm)

P = 270mm - 43.40961372 = 226.5903863mm


A = HP+2a = 7.4mm x 226.5903863mm + (2) 4009.024543mm2

A = 1676.768858mm2 + 29666.78161mm2 = 31,343.55046mm2


R is corder radius before strike.

r is corner radius after strike.

Inverse 4-Corner Area before strike = 4RxR-R2 = (4-)R2

Inverse 4-corner Area after strike  = 4rxr-r2 = (4-)r2

Increase in corner Area is the inverse corner area before strike minus the inverse corner area after striel

Increase in corner Area is = (4-)R2 - (4-)r2 = (4-)(R2-r2)

Corner radius R shrinks to r upon strike, where R > r.  

After strike, increase is corner volume is C, in the increase in the 4corner area times the blank height of 7.4mm.

C = H(4-)(R2-r2)Note: The increase corner volume is for the slab only. The engraving of border over the increase corner area is not included in the corner volume increase. A semispherical bead-top/grove bottom can be used for precise stacking, that is self maintaining.


The striking specification.

There is a border surrounding the both the top and bottom strike surfaces, and lettering on the top and bottom strike surfaces.   

In examining a bar, it appears that the area of the border and lettering is about 25% from eyeball.

During Strike, metal is pushed down into the strike area 75%, raised 25% with a small volume C amount of metal being pushed into the four inverse Corner areas. Borders and lettering are engravings E in the strike die.

The Engravings volumes E are raised 0.05mm on top and bottom strike surfaces, for an increase in height of 0.1mm, so that the bar has a finished height of 7.5mm, while the corner radius R shrinks from 6.909mm (0.272in) to a smaller finished radius (target 0.25in), as metal is pushed into the 4 corners and engravings.

C is the increased Corner Volume of the increased Corners out of the corner surfaces.

E is the increased Engraving Volume of borders and lettering above the blank surface.

S is the decreased Recessed Volume of the Mirror like Surfaces below the blank surface.

H is the engraving height over the blank surface at 0.05mm

H is targeted to 0.05mm on each strike surface of area a.

D is the recess depth of the recessed under the blank surface.

R is the decrease in the corner radius after strike.

R = R - r

a = change in surface strike area during strike.

v is the bar volume that does not change during striking.

H is the height of blank.

R is the corner radius of the blank.

r is the cornder radius of the finished bar.

a is the area of the top or bottom strike surface.

% is the percentage of the strike surface that is engraved.

S Recessed volume equals the E engraving volume plus  radial volume, S = E + C,  as the Volume does not change during strike.

C = H(4-)(R2-r2) change is corner volume.

Two strike surfaces x final strike area x percentage of engraving x twice the increase engraving height.

E = 2(a + a)(%)(2H)  is the change in engraving volume

a  = WxL-4x(1-/4)R2 = WL-(4-)R2 before strike

a' = WxL-4x(1-/4)r2 = WL-(4-)r2 after strike

a = WL-(4-)r2-[WL-(4-)R2]

a = (4-)(R2-r2)

E = 2(a')(%)(2H)

E = 2(WL-(4-)r2)(%)(2H)   Engraved Volumed Raised

S is the decreased Recessed Volume of the Mirror like Surfaces below the blank surface, is equal to, two strike surfaces x final strike area x percentage of recess area x twice the increase recessed depth.


S = 2(a')(1-%)(2D)

S = 2(WL-(4-)r2)(1-%)(2D)  Recessed Volume Lowered


Strike Equations:

Recessed volume equals engraving volume plus corner volume.

S = E + C

S = 2(WL-(4-)r2)(1-%)(2D) Engraved Raised Volume

E = 2(WL-(4-)r2)(%)(2H)   Engraved Recessed Volume

C = H(4-)(R2-r2)           Increased Corner Volume


Blank Radius is 6.909mm 0.272"

Finished Radius is 6.35mm 0.25"

Difference is radius is 0.022" or 0.5588mm

Border is 2mm.

The increased area of the corners are covered by the border.


S = E + C                 Constant Volume Equation

S = 2(WL-(4-)r2)(1-%)(2D) Engraved Raised Volume

E = 2(WL-(4-)r2)(%)(2H)   Engraved Recessed Volume

C = H(4-)(R2-r2)           Increased Corner Volume

2(WL-(4-)r2)(1-%)(2D) = 2(WL-(4-)r2)(%)(2H) + H(4-)(R2-r2)

2(1-%)(2D) = 2(%)(2H) + H(4-)(R2-r2)/(WL-(4-)r2)



(1-%)D-%H=H(4-)(R2-r2)/4(WL-(4-)r2) Strike Equation

Depth volume equals engraved volume plus increased corner volume.

W =  45mm     Blank and Bar width FIXED

L =  90mm     Blank and Bar Length FIXED

R =  6.909mm  Blank Corner Radius

r =  Unknown  Finished Bar Corner Radius 0.25" (target 6.35mm)

H = 0.05mm   Engraving Height above blank surface

D =  Unknown Recess Depth below blank surface (est. 0.25mm)

%  =  Unknown. Engraved area percentage (est. 25%)

Unknowns D Recessed depth and % precentage of engraved area.

The finished engraved lettering and border will be sized struck so that the height of the finished bar (thickness) is 7.5mm, with a finishing radius of 0.25" and with a 2mm border. Hence, the DEPTH of the recessed area is a function of the percentage of engraved area on the strick surfaces, and both the depth and percentage are unknown. In order to have like striking affects on both surfaces, both struck surfaces will have the same engraving percentage area. The front (top) surface will have "Utah Mint, Metal Minters, 999 fine 10 ounces troy, 311 grams", and is a FIXED percentage of engraved area, and hence, always having the same design, and hence, the precentage will be determined, which can be obtained emprically or by design approximations or by calculations. In eyeballing the engraving on a typical JM bar, it seems like the gross height of the engraving is about 0.2mm, from gross eyeball. This means that the engraving is raised 0.05mm and the recess is lowered 0.15mm, or 3x, as the strike force is primarily down into the metal. Hence, the pushing of metal up into the engraved border and lettering should be full, and the excess pressed out into the corners.


Computation of Depth of Strike

(1-%)D-%H=H(4-)(R2-r2)/4(WL-(4-)r2) Strike Equation

(1-%)D=%H where R=r (no radial expansion)

Strike Height h = D + H.

@ 15% then 0.05mm and 0.283mm for a strike height 0.333mm

@ 20% then 0.05mm and 0.20mm for a strike height 0.25mm

@ 25% then 0.05mm and 0.15mm for a strike height 0.20mm

@ 30% then 0.05mm and 0.117mm for a strike height 0.167mm

@ 40% then 0.05mm and 0.075mm for a strike height 0.125

@ 50% then 0.05mm and 0.05mm for a strike height 0.10mm

It appears that the radial expansion will be minimal.

                     D = f(%)

The recess depth is a function of the percentage engraved.

H = 7.4mm              blank height

2H = 0.1mm            Bar height

WL = 90mmx45mm = 4050mm2  slab area

R2 = (6.909mm)2 = 47.7343mm2    

r2 = (6.35mm)2  = 40.3225mm2

R2-r2 = 47.7343mm2 - 40.3225mm2 = 7.4118mm2

4- = 0.858407346

(4-)r2 = 0.858407346 x 40.3225mm2 = 34.6131302mm2

(1-%)D-%H=H(4-)(R2-r2)/4(WL-(4-)r2) Strike Equation







Depth and Engraved Percentage table calculations

Target is D at 0.15mm and that requires a 75% percentage.

Will not

@70% (1-.7)D-.7(0.05mm)=0.002931314mm

@70% 0.3D-0.035mm=0.002931314mm

@70% 0.3D=0.0372931314mm

@70% D= 0.126437713mm  TOO SMALL


@75% (1-.75)D-.75(0.05mm)=0.002931314mm

@75% 0.25)D-0.0375mm=0.002931314mm

@75% 0.25D=0.040431314mm


@80% (1-.8)D-.8(0.05mm)=0.002931314mm

@80% 0.2D-0.04mm=0.002931314mm

@80% 0.2D=0.042931314mm

@80% D=0.21465657mm      TOO BIG  

Table of Engraving Strike Height  (mm)


Percentage Elevated Recessed  Strike  Finished   Radial

Engraved    Height   Depth    Height   Radius   Expansion


15%        0.05mm + 0.28mm = 0.33mm  6.909      0.00  

20%        0.05mm + 0.20mm = 0.25mm  6.909      0.00

25%        0.05mm + 0.15mm = 0.20mm  6.909      0.00  Best

30%        0.05mm + 0.12mm = 0.17mm  6.909      0.00

40%        0.05mm + 0.08mm   0.13mm  6.909      0.00

50%        0.05mm + 0.05mm   0.10mm  6.909      0.00

70%        0.05mm + 0.13mm   0.18mm  6.350      0.5588mm

75%        0.05mm + 0.16mm   0.21mm  6.350      0.5588mm

80%        0.05mm + 0.21mm   0.26mm  6.350      0.5588mm  


At zero radial expansion, and zero lateral expansion.

0.2mm engraved height, 25% engraving, 0.05 and 0.15mm.

Metalurgy: It is unknown how much a bar with expand laterally, horizontally, radially, being pressed down. The blank bar is 7.4mm, struck to 7.5mm, with a 0.2mm engraving height, that is duplicated on each side, the bar is 7.1 mm sold with 0.2mm and 0.2mm for strike height, and 4/75 is a small fraction.

Metalurgy compression flow is not known.

Chemical Etching avoids the problem of bar distortion during strike compression.

Strike specification

Border is 2mm.

Engraving Height 0.05mm  (x2 add 0.1mm to finished bar height

Recessed Depth 0.15m

Strike Height 0.2mm

Engraving Precentage 25%. 75%/25% is a 3:1 ratio.

Weight unchanged during strike.

Width and Length unchanged during strike, Bar is confined W&L.

Open Radius allows for expansion, however, any radial expansion would be nonlinear along the height of the edges, and very small, because the compression occurs in the top 0.2mm of each side. How to cure any nonlinear radial expansion about the radius? It be so small, as perhaps, not a problem, because a 2mm border is present at the corner to may require.

Die Design

The trick, to design striking dies which transfer the engraving, pushing metal down to the recessed surface, and pushes metal up into the engravings (border and lettering), while confining the bar side edges both, W, L, and R, to prevent lateral-horizontal-radial expansion or bulging during the strike.



______|_border__|  _________________ original Blank top

     |         |

recess|         | < original side edge, to be confined by Die

------          |    rounded.   

               |      Border 0.05mm high

               |      Recess 0.15mm deep

Bar             |


    Bar Edge-> | \ <-Die edge tapers away from edge, so as to

guide the die onto the bar, guide the bar into the die, as the die strikes the bar, so that, the die edge is deep enough to cover areas of the bar edge that may tend to bulge, during the strike, so as to confined the side edges all around the bar.


|                  Top Die  (Front UT Mint)         |

|  ==============================================   |

|  ||                                          ||   |

|  ||                                          ||   |

|  /|           Bar Being Struck               | \  |

| / |                                          |  \ |

==  | <-- no bulging ------------------------->|   ==

| \ |                                          |  / |

|  \|                                          | /  |

|  ||                                          ||   |

|  ||__________________________________________||   |

|  ==============================================   |

|          Bottom Die (Interchangeable Engraving)   |


The strike height === is small (0.2mm), including 0.05mm engraving and 0.15mm recessed surface, in conparison to bar finished height 7.5mm, so that bulging at the middle seems improbably. Slanted guides can be used for self-centering of the bar during a rapid auto-strike to prevent bulging near the top/bottom struck surface edges. Even if the top and bottom edges of the bar first hit and scratched by the slanted guides to force initial centering, the engraved areas and die sides will clean up the edges at the end of the strike stroke. This method serves to clean up any warpage of blanks.

Struck Bar Specification


Length: 90mm, Not affected by striking

Width: 45mm, Not affected by striking

Weight: 10.015oz Not affected by striking but can be trim down to as low as exactly 10.000 during deburring/polishing of the blank.

Corner Radius: 6.909mm Not affected by striking

Finished Height: 7.5mm

Engraving Height 0.05mm front and back surfaces

Recessed Depth 0.15mm front and back surfaces.

Strike Height 0.2mm front and back surfaces.

Border is 2mm wide running along the periphery, standing 0.2mm proud above the recessed surface.

Lettering is also standing 0.2mm proud above the recessed surface.

Engraving percentage is 25% borders and lettering areas, and 75% recessed area, of the total surface areas, front and back.

When the designs of the lettering is known, a computation, or emprical testing can be had to adjust the recess depth and engraving height, that is in total the strike height, in relation to the engraving percentage. This can be done, by macking the dies flat and in steps, to arrive at the correct strike height, which should be 2mm or greater for visual recognition.

Engraving Height grows up during striking from blank 7.4mm to struck 7.5mm on the edges between the borders top opposing surfaces as metal is pushed into border cavities 0.05mm higher in the borders on each front and back surfaces, as the recess surface is pushed down 0.15mm for a strike height of 0.2mm.

Roughness: Side edges, borders, and proud standing lettering are rough, and the recess areas are smooth preferably "mirror like".


Precision Inspection

The primary goal is precision blank. We understand that there will be shrinkage (uniformed HWL reductions), and cavitation (uneven contractions manifest as warped surfaces). Best guess at specifications.  


1,000 grams per kilo, 1,000 kilo per metric tonne

1,000,000 grams per metric tonne, 31.103477 grams per troy ounce

12 troy ounces per troy pound, 373.241720 grams per troy pound

32.1507466 troy ounce per kilo, 2.20462262 pound per kilo

2.54 cm per inch, 25.4mm per inch

1 cubic inch = 16,387.064 cubic millimeter


NWTM L:90mm W:46mm H:7.58mm, .999 fine, corner radius unknown.

JM:  L:90mm W:45mm H:7.00mm, .999 fine, eyeball corner 3/16in.


Blank Specification Computations

Weight Specification:  10.015  0.015 oz, 0.15%  0.3%

                      311.5013gm  0.46655gm

Length: 90.0mm  0.04500mm at 0.1% = 3.5433107in  0.00177165in

Width:  45.0mm  0.02250mm at 0.1% = 1.7716535in  0.00088583in

Height: 07.4mm  0.00375mm at 0.1% = 0.2992126in  0.00014961in

Flatness  0.01mm. Flatness in important for striking perfection. When struck, the width and length are confined, and the metal is pushed up into the top and bottom striking dies. The resulting striking lettering is 0.04mm standing proud above the mirror like recess area, and, the border is 0.05mm standing proud above the recess, when metal is pushed up. The flatness 0.01 should be much less than the lettering 0.04mm and borders 0.05mm standing height. When struck, the die pushing up the lettering from and creating the recessed surface. The border is pushed up 0.05mm on both top and bottom, meaning that the struck bar finished height will be 7.4mm +0.05mm front border height +0.05mm back border height, adding during striking another 0.1mm to the height, giving the bar an overall finished height of 7.5mm. This complete the 1:2:12 finished aspect ratio of the finish bar, which is important for stacking considerations. The US mint 20 Silver Eagle Plastic Tube are well defined, and have a generally rectangular shape. The width for stacking in 44mm x 44mm x 72mm, and hence, two 44mm x 44mm tubes, (40 coins at 40 ounces) nicely stack on top of a 10oz bar, for safety box and bank vault convenience compact stacking.

Radius. The bars are substantially small slabs with four rounded corners having a radius R of about 3/16" from eye ball. The radius R should be about 3/16", but particularly sized so that at perfect HWLR and desired volume is achieved.

The Gold bars will have the same weight and length dimension, 90mm x 45mm. The height and radius will be different due to density differences, but otherwise precisely stackable on top of the silver bars. The US Mint Gold plastic tubs are smaller in HWL, so two gold will also nicely fit within the general 90mm x 45mm area of the bars. The gold bar corners will be slightly different in radius, to the touch, so that when one runs fingers along the edge corners, some can quickly physically separate stacked gold bars from stacked silver bars.

Now try lets compute using 7.5mm

90mmx45mmx7.5mm=30375mm3x0.0105gm/mm3= 318.9375gm per slab minus four corner loss of metal.

Volume changes should be 1.001 x 1.001 x 1.001 = 1.00300 or 0.3% by volume, and for 10oz x 1.003 = 10.03  10.015  0.015 0.15% = 0.3%

The Density, specific gravity is 10.5gm/cm3 at 20C (about 68F).

Inspections and Measuring temperatures should be at 68F.

Silver melting point 960.8°C.and 961.93°C.

Silver boiling point is 2212°C.

Silver Density, specific gravity is 10.50gm/mm3 at (20°C).

Computation of Radial Corner Slab Metal Loss:

Nominal Slab volume equal 90mm x 45mm x 7.5mm = 30,375mm3

Nominal weight is 10.015 ounces or 311.5013225gm

30.780cm3/slab x 10.5gm/cm3 = 318.9375gm/slab.

The bar specification is 311.5013gm  0.46655gm.

318.9375gm/slab/31.103477grams/oz =  10.25407866oz/slab

10.25407866oz/slab - 10.015oz/bar = 0.23907866oz loss metal

in 4 inverse corners/bars.

0.23907866oz/4corners = 0.059769665oz/inverse-corner loss.

1.8590444gm/inverse-corner loss

7.4361776gm/inverse slab metal loss on 4 corners.

318.9375gm/slab - 7.4361776/slab-loss = 311.5013225gm.

Confirmed corner slab loss of 1.8590444gm/inverse-corner loss.

Radius Computation based upon perfect slab.

R is the radius on the corners of the bar.

The area of a corner is R2/4.

Area of the inverse corner area = RxR - R2/4 = (1-/4)R2

The volume of the inverse corner volume is H(1-/4)R2.

The specific gravity of silver is 10.5gm/cm3 or 0.0105gm/mm3.

The inverse corner loss weight is 1.8590444gm/inverse-corner loss.

The inverse corner volume is 1.8590444gm/corner/0.0105gm/mm3.

The inverse corner volume is 177.0518476mm3/corner.

The inverse 4 corner volume is 4x177.0518476mm3/corner.

The inverse 4 corner volume is 708.2073904mm3/slab.

708.2073904mm3 x 0.0105gm/mm3 is 7.4361776gm. (CONFIRMED)

The inverse corner volume V is 177.0518476mm3/corner.

The Height H of the bar is 7.50mm.

The Corner Radius R is now determined.

The number  is equal to 3.141592654.

/4 = 3.141592654/4 = 0.785398163.

The scalar of (1-/4) is 0.214601837.

The inverse corner volume V = H(1-/4)R2.

V = 177.0518476mm3= 7.50mm x 0.214601837R2.

V = 177.0518476mm3= 1.609513777mmR2

The corner radius R2 = 177.0518476mm3/1.609513777mm.

The corner radius R2 = 110.0033128mm2.

The corner radius R  = 110.0033128mm2= 10.488246412055735mm

The NOMIMAL corner radius R = 10.488246412mm.

The Nominal corner radius R = 10.488246412mm = 0.412695in

Confirmed small radius.


3/16=0.1875"  0.1875"x25.4mm/in = 4.7625mm R expected.

Specification Sizing of Height vis-à-vis Radius

Height H is variable between 7 and 8 mm, preferably at 7.5mm.

Radius R is variable but preferred about 7mm like the edge height.  

Nominal Length L is fixed at 90mm.

Nominal Width W is fixed at 45mm

Nominal Weight w is fixed at 311.5013225gm.

Silver Density D is 0.0105gm/mm3.

Bar Volume = w/D = 311.5013225gm/0.0105gm/mm3.

Nominal Bar Volume v 29666.79261mm3.

Bar Volume = Slab Volume - 4 Inverse Corner Volumes

   v     =  H x W x L  -   H x 4 x (1-/4)R2

29666.79261mm3 = H x 90mmx45mm - H x (4-)R2  

29666.79261mm3 = H (4050mm2- (4-)R2).

H =      29666.79261mm3


   4050mm2 - (0.858407346)R2

4050mm2 - (0.858407346)R2 = 29666.79261mm3 / H

(0.858407346)R2 = 4050mm2 - 29666.79261mm3/H]

R = [4050mm2 - 29666.79261mm3/H]/(0.858407346)]

R = [[4050mm2 - 29666.79261mm3/7.3mm]/(0.858407346)]

   [[4050mm2 - 4063.944193mm2/(0.858407346)]

   [ -13.944193mm2/(0.858407346)]  NEGATIVE

Zero Radius:

0 = [[4050mm2 - 29666.79261mm3/H]/(0.858407346)]

0 = 4050mm2 - 29666.79261mm3/H]

    4050mm2 = 29666.79261mm3/H

    H = 29666.79261mm3/4050mm2 = 7.325133977mm


R = [[4050mm2 - 29666.79261mm3/7.4mm]/(0.858407346)]

   [[4050mm2 - 4009.026028mm2]/(0.858407346)]

   [  40.973972mm2/(0.858407346)]




R = [4050mm2 - 29666.79261mm3/7.5mm]/(0.858407346)]

   [4050mm2 - 3955.572348mm2/(0.858407346)]

   [  94.42766mm2/(0.858407346)]




R = [4050mm2 - 29666.79261mm3/7.6mm]/(0.858407346)]

   [4050mm2 - 3903.525343mm2/(0.858407346)]

   [ 146.473657mm2/(0.858407346)]



R = 0.514279641in

Height-Radius Table


Height       Radius


7.6mm    0.514279641in  To Large

7.5mm    0.412923104in  To Large

7.4mm    0.272002943in  6.908874763mm radius (NEARLY PERFECT)

7.325133977mm   Zero


The Blank specification Height is for 7.4mm.

That produces about a 1/4" radius at 6.909mm


Striking, die, width and length are fixed, no expansion, in a seat.

As the die strikes, metal is pushed up into cavities forming the borders and lettering. So, the "height" of the struck bars will be greater than the height of the blanks. The blank bars are 7.4mm, but the strike bars are 7.5mm, assuming 0.05 millimeter is sufficient height for clear visual recognition, with the two border adding 0.1 millimeters to the overall height. So, size radii obtain a 0.272in radius with a blank height of 7.4 millimeters, expecting a 7.5mm struck bar.   


Purity. Contamination will be monitor. Ceramic contamination should not be a problem, and bars have been poured in ceramic for years, and apparently is not a problem. That may change when a ceramic die is used.

Flatness. The blanks have a top surface, an equal like bottom surface, and an edge surface that surrounds the edge of the bar.  

Roughness. Roughness of the blanks will be same all about the bars on all surfaces. This roughness will be preserved on the edges of the bars during striking. The border and lettering surfaces can be rough as well. Only the recess portion of the bar has a "mirror" like surface, which is formed when striking.


Blank Specification

Weight Specification:  10.015  0.015 oz, 0.15% = 0.3%

                      311.5013gm  0.46655gm

Length: 90.0mm  0.0450mm at 0.1% = 3.5433107in  0.00177165in

Width:  45.0mm  0.0225mm at 0.1% = 1.7716535in  0.00088583in

Height: 07.4mm  0.0037mm at 0.1% = 0.2913386in  0.00014567in

Radius: 6.909mm  0.007mm at 0.1% = 0.272in 0.0003" 4 corner R.

Purity .999 using JM comex bars with assay monitoring.

Flatness  0.01mm across both top surface and bottom surface.

Roughness. Side edges, borders, and proud standing lettering are rough, and the recess areas are smooth preferably "mirror like".


Blank Bar Specification


Weight: 10.015  0.015 oz, 0.15% = 0.3% 311.5013gm  0.46655gm

Length: 90.0mm  0.0450mm at 0.1% = 3.5433107in  0.00177165in

Width: 45.0mm  0.0225mm at 0.1% = 1.7716535in  0.00088583in

Height: 07.4mm  0.0037mm at 0.1% = 0.2913386in  0.00014567in

Radius: 6.909mm  0.007mm at 0.1% = 0.272in 0.0003in at 4-Corners

Purity: .999 using JM comex bars with assay monitoring.

Flatness:  0.01mm across both top surface and bottom surface.

Roughness: The blank bar has the same roughness over all surfaces.


Struck Bar Specification


Length 90mm and Width 45mm are not affected by striking, held firm by length and width. Weight is same as the blank.

Height: Height grows during striking from blank 7.4mm to struck 7.5mm on the edges between the borders top opposing surfaces as metal is pushed into border cavities 0.05mm higher in the borders on each front and back surfaces.

Border Height: Standing proud 0.05mm above the front and back recessed surfaces for a total increase of 0.1mm.

Lettering Height: Standing proud 0.04mm above recessed surfaces, being less than the 0.05mm height of the border, and greater than the flatness of 0.01mm, so that upon stacking, only the borders touch, and the lettering is not scratched nor is the recessed mirror like surface during stacking.

Radius: When striking, the struck surface is lowered just a tad, so that the volumetric displacement down into the recess surface of the bar that equals the volumetric displacement up into the borders and lettering. The finished struck bar will have a 7.5mm finished height along the border. Because the recessed surface area (about 95% of the total surface area) is much much greater that the area of the borders and lettering (about 5% of the total surface area), the volume of metal stucked down into the bar surface in the recessed areas will not affect by much the 0.05mm height of the borders, which will result in a finished height of 7.5mm, but the actual height of the borders, respecting the recessed area, will actually end up slightly greater than 0.05mm from the top of the borders to the recessed surface, similarly, the actually height of the lettering above the recessed will be slightly greater than 0.04mm.

With the Length and Width secured and fixed during stricking, the strike fixture seat may be a simple rectangle, providing the inverse corner volumes, into which metal could expand horizontally, during striking to enable improved striking, by having metal pushed up into the border cavities, lettering cavities, as well as the inverse corner volumes, created when placing the R cornered blank into a perfectly rectangular 90mm x 45mm seat. Hence, the finished radius may be slightly smaller than the blank corner radius, for example, 0.272in radius of the blanks and a 0.25 radius of the struck finished bars.

Roughness: Side edges, borders, and proud standing lettering are rough, and the recess areas are smooth preferably "mirror like".


The first order of business is the production of Precision Blanks.

Normally, coins are struck, one at a time, by private and governmental mints, where the coin blanks are auto-fed and struck at a high rate, say one every second. Our blank bars could be auto fed as well, within those standardized predetermined blank specifications. Maybe a small guided roller track, (scratches would be a concern in the load process, and here, any scratches should be avoided so that any scratches are removed in the striking process), can be used to semi-auto feed a continuous string of bars into a small press, striking one at a time, at a high rate, say three per minute, and several small presses with like guided roller track feeds could be use with proper nominal pressure. But that production seem very simple, and so, for now. lets concentrate on making precision blanks in quantity, and how do to that, the more difficult task.  

Yes, I have seen many ceramic molds, where liquid metal is poured right in, so, I should have expected your move to ceramic molds for making the poured bars using a multicavity molds including runners and pockets for conveniently catching over-flow and insuring filled cavities.

I will attempt to reduce to writings your production plans, as we go, as a series of process steps, as I understand it. Each process step in the process is characterized with a starting VERB.


              Blank Bar Production Method

Machine two master molds in hardened steel, one master mold having two master die halve, for each ceramic die half of the bars molds, which ceramic die halves are die cast in very high temperature ceramic, as ceramic is the casting material, creating two ceramic die halves forming a multicavity poured bar ceramic mold when pressed together, as die casting the ceramic mold is by pouring melted ceramic into the master molds.

Close the two master molds by closing together two pairs of the master die halves.

Melt Ceramic in ceramic pour cups in a melt furnace.

Pour hot liquid ceramic into the two master molds.

Remove the ceramic die halves from the two master molds.

Repeat the ceramic melt, pour, and remove steps to create as many ceramic die halves as desired in a ceramic die casting run.

Create two steel bases for supporting the ceramic die halves in the pour press.

Plum the steel bases for water cooling of the ceramic die halves to maintain a predetermined casting temperature of the ceramic die halves. This may require heaters on the hot injector ends and water cooling on the ejector cold end of the steel bases.

Prepare the ceramic die halves for loading into steel bases.

Assemble the ceramic die halves into the steel bases forming two ceramic die assemblies.

Install the two ceramic die assemblies into the pour press.

Press the two ceramic die assemblies together, for forming the ceramic poured bar mold from the two ceramic die halves now pressed together in the pour press.

Install a liquid metal injector for injecting liquid hot metal into the ceramic mold of the ceramic die assemblies in the pour press.

Melt metal in metal pour cups in the melt furnace.

Pour liquid metal from pour cups into the liquid metal injector.

Inject hot liquid metal into the cavities through an intake nozzle of the ceramic pour mold in the pour press. The ceramic mold drawings show a nozzle-shaped intake for feeding liquid metal into the cavities of the ceramic mold. This assumes that the ceramic die halves have been pressed together, prior to the introduction of liquid metal into the cavities. Hence, the pressing action of the pour press is not used to press the metal in the molds, for insuring that the metal complete fills the cavities, but rather to merely close the ceramic die halves.

Separate the ceramic die halves exposing the pour bars interconnected by feed lines for a tree of scrap metal, plus collection pockets, (if any), and air grooves (if any) to insure that liquid metal under injection pressure completely fills the bar cavities.

Remove the bars and tree from the separated ceramic mold, and this may include cutting of the tree to release the bars, without significantly scratching the bars.  

Recycle the scrap metal from the feed tree, pockets, and air grooves.

Debur bar at feed line overflows in a polishing station.

Break border edges in a polishing station.

Polish to a rough finish on all surfaces in a polishing station.

Inspect the pour bars to specifications, including, weight (electronic scale), HWL (ruled scale), Corner Radius (radial tool?), flatness (?), purity (assays), roughness (surface polish).



The input is 1000oz Comex bars, and the output are 10oz precision blanks. Capacity and Costs are everything. Non-recurring equipment costs are largely not relevant, but capacity, precision, and costs are everything. Targets are 1000 bars/day, at 5$ per bar, produced within blank bar specification.

The production process should be similar to plastic injection process where hot metal is injected, precision bars are produced subject to deburring and polishing.


Utah Mint Executive Summary

The Utah Mint Promoter, Reid, is seeking funding to start up a Mint, and a bullion Depository and a bullion Distributorship for purchasing and converting large gold and silver COMEX bars into small 10oz bars sold at wholesale in phase I, with the cash sales used to purchase an increased amount of bullion held in the depository. In phase I, a small production line is installed. Contributors, that is "members", of the depository can place their bullion in the depository that is then repetitively cycled through the Mint, Depository, and Distributorship to realize recurring profits for purchasing more bullion to increase the bullion held in the depository. By using the Mint to convert the large bars at comex prices into small bars sold at wholesale, the premium differential between paper and physical gold and silver prices enables a return on sold bullion in specie, which return is paid as interest to the members on their bullion held in the depository. The Mint, Depository, and Distributorship operate together to provide three separate profit centers and enable contributing members to realized interest paid in species on their allocated bullion held in the Depository as a for-profit bullion bank.

Key Market Drivers:

1) Specific target 10oz retail bullion bars, the market niche.

2) Specific production line, proprietary designs, with minimized costs of production

3) For-Profit Bullion bank where members deposit bullion and earn interest paid in species.

4) Immediate International market acceptance through endorsement by notable gold bugs.

5) In house expertise in tooling and mass production.

Funding and Status:

Currently, a feasibility study is underway regarding minimized production costs and design of specific specialized dedicated production lines, with feasibility funding 50K$ secured for that purpose. At beginning of 2009, I seek 2M$ to install and debug the production line, fully secured, 500K$ being for production line equipment procurement and debug operations and alpha testing. When up and running, I will seek depository bullion stock. By June 30 2009, after production line is up and running and wholesale channels are established, I will seek 50M$ to stock up the depository for initial cycling of bullion through the Mint, Depository and Distribution Channels, to demonstrate interest being earned and paid in species. By End 2009, I will seek 120M$ from members to complete 170M$ phase I depository funding. Then, in 2010 we seek to set up a refinery with 3B$ in the depository in phase II. Then, in 2012 we start buying mines, in phase III, in a final vertical integration of the plan with 9B$ in the depository.

Derrick Michael Reid, Utah Mint Promoter


Sirs & Madams,

In Re: Utah Mint, Utah Depository, Café Bullion,

Utah Mint promotions is proposing the start-up of a Mint in three phases. Phase I: 10oz gold/silver bars will be produced in quantity within the US, to be sold globally. Phase II: a refinery will be started. Phase III: gold and silver mines will be purchased. The start up costs for the Mint are about $2M, none of which will be at risk because $500K for the tooling would be backed by $500K in personal silver bullion. The remaining $1.5M will always be kept in the form of cash and bullion.

The Mint will operate in connection with a to-be for-profit depository. The Bullion held will be cycled through the Mint, and through each pass, there will be a percent increase in bullion realized and earned. The allocated owners of bullion in the depository are paid interest in species.

The size of the depository is projected to be $170M in Phase I, which will expand to $3B in Phase II, and eventually reach $9B in Phase III. Potentially, this is a five-year project, though the minting operation should be profitable within one year.

The Mint is seeking $2M in financing from one individual, bank, or VC group, to start up the tooling at the Mint and put the Mint in production. While we have an initial hoard 500K$ of bullion to start production, the 500K$ will be used to create the tooling and set up a production line, and at current rates looking for 0.5% fixed for three years, and the 1.5M$ will be used to procure initial metal stock. The lender of the 500K$ may also put up the 1.5M$ for an initial stock for the Mint for storage. As the stock is processed through the mint, the owner of the stock will obtain interest on that stock in specie. If there is a private party with venture capital who would like to learn more, please kindly advise.

Derrick Michael Reid, BSEE, JD, ESQ.

(Google my full name, and learn of me)

Engineer, Lawyer, Bullion Investor

LeMetroPoleCafe Member,

Publish Bullion Commentator

Utah Mint Promoter.




1oz Ag & Au Eagle Coins Dealers            

1000oz and 100oz Ag Dealers     Moneys from distributor/wholesaler

100oz Au & Kilo Au Refineries   and members held by the Depository.

1000oz Ag Refineries      

5000oz Ag COMEX Deliveries    <=$===+==== Members of the Club

100oz Au COMEX Deliveries       |     Put up Bullion or $

                |              $   $ Earnings buy more bullion

     10oz Au    |     1oz      |         

     10oz Ag   \|/    10oz     +<======$=======  Sells 10oz Bars

Utah ======>   Utah    ==ship=======10oz=Bars===> Clearing Houses

Mint <======= Depository        |    ||             Wholesalers

100oz Au      1oz Coins  <----Distributor<--orders-------/

1000oz Ag     10oz Au Ag Bars   $    ||  

5000Oz Ag    100oz Au Comex     |   \||/                      

100oz Ag    1000oz Ag Comex     Retail Coins 1oz  (Establishes   

Bars        100oz Ag Bars       Retail Bars 10oz retail pricing)

         5000oz Ag Comex

          Bank $ Deposits


All Comex bars will be preferably JM bars only, 999 guarantee.

The Depository orders production from the Mint.

Distributor, Wholesaler, Clearing House on Margin.

Wealth accumulation and retention in the DEPOSITORY.

Owners have allocated bullion store at the DEPOSITORY.

The Distributor (market monitor, DMR) operates Depository Retail Sales (minimal profit margin), interfaces (orders/payment) with wholesalers (minimal profit margin), buys/sells Depository bullion at the depository (maximum profit margin and wealth retention and accumulations), and orders delivery from the depository to the Mint for production at the Mint (minimal profit margin). The request for money simply enhances our ability to ramp up production from the start.

The key is that DMR, The Market Monitor, is involved with the Mint/Depository/Distributor, and actively manages bullion and money flow in terms of bullion purchases, taking wholesale orders, setting retail and wholesale prices, setting bullion accumulation levels in the depository, inter alia.



Promoter, Derrick Michael Reid, is seeking $50M in Phase I to create a Mint (“Utah Mint”), a for-profit depository (“Utah Depository”), and a distributorship (“Café Bullion”) with the following objectives: the purchase of big COMEX gold and silver bars from refineries and dealers; taking delivery off the COMEX for melt-mold at the Mint; and the production of small 10oz gold/silver bars for sale to the public at a profit margin. In Phase II, a refinery will be introduced so as to increase production margins.  Finally, Phase II will see the purchase of gold and silver mines, which will further increase production margins.

Our marketing advantage is derived from the following: (i) personal associations with notable personalities in the gold-bug world who have indicated their support of this business; (ii) a small product line to be sold to the public as the highly prized specialty 10oz bars, which are suitable for public investment in bullion en mass; (iii) contacts with domestic wholesalers for US distributions and with a prospective international clearing house for international distribution of our bars; (iv) our for-profit depositories, where bullion holders can deposit bullion for cycling through the Mint-Distributor and earn interest paid in species; and (v) tool, die tooling, and mass producers with 50 years experience are already in place with initial indications of abilities to produce the small bars.

We are seeking a $2M loan. There should be about $500K in start-up expenses and $1.5M in initial bullion stock. We will seek a first primary partner with $50M in bullion stock as production start up inventory to launch the Depository. Overall, the risk is low. At all times the majority of the funding value will be in the bank, either stored as big or small bars bullion in the depository, as bullion in process through the Mint, or as account receivables in money to be used for the purchase of more big bars bullion, which will increase bullion holdings based upon margins. After the Mint and Depository are online, a maximum number (12) of secondary investors with a minimum of $10M each in bullion, for a total of $170M, can use the depository as a gold bank earning interest on the stored bullion paid as capital gains and paid in species.

Derrick Michael Reid, BSEE, JD, ESQ.

Engineer, Lawyer, Bullion Investor

LeMetroPoleCafe Member, Published Bullion Commentator.

Refinery-Mint-Depository Promoter

The Utah Mint & Café Bullion Distributor Business Plan

This is a basic business plan to take advantage of shortages in the retail precious metal market created by a differential between the paper price (COMEX spot) and physical prices (what ordinary people are willing to pay at the local coin shop). Currently, the 1oz silver premium is fetching 50-70% over spot; it is here where there is profit potential.


Utah Mint makes Ag and Au 10oz bar Molds.

"GATA Café Bar 10oz .999 Fine Silver AKM-logo"

Start off with silver 10oz bar production.

After getting silver production online, make a gold mold.

"LeMetroPole Care Bar 10oz .999 Fine Gold AKM-logo"

The production line includes melting big Comex bars, pouring liquid metal into Utah molds, stamping as needed, and finishing the product with deburring and weight verification. (I guess)

The distribution company "CAFÉ BULLION" will be operated by Derrick. Comex acceptable bars typically are made through a single pour. The production method of making the 10oz bars is under investigation.

RAW Precious Metal Stocks.

Derrick will put up 1000oz Silver Comex Bars for an initial silver production run - enough for 4000 10oz silver bars.

As the silver bars are sold, more RAW PM stock is purchased, including 1000oz Silver Comex bars and later 100oz Gold Comex Bars.

Comex Bars are shipped to the Utah Mint. The target percentage gain is 15% for silver bars and 5% for gold bars. The premium received above spot is estimated at 40%. As the stock is sold, 1.4 times more raw PM stock can be bought, thereby accumulating an increasing amount of COMEX bar stock. If the COMEX paper price approaches the physical price, production and stock purchases will be reduced. Such a business is sound only to the extent there is a COMEX/RETAIL price differential in the face of unprecedented retail demand. People are in fear, so, we should be in greed.


Derrick and or really anyone who wants to use the CAFÉ BULLION distributorship, can put gold and silver coins up for sale.

Very old coinage, say 1966 silver dollars, may have some numismatic value, and prices will be set accordingly. The price of goods includes: shipping; insurance; spot price; premium; numismatic value, if any, and; sales tax, if any. There may be a minimum CAFÉ BULLION purchase order of at least $1000 to avoid sales taxes.

Product Line.

The product line will be targeted and limited to small precious metal (PM) items, more specifically, to 10oz Bar niche. Various 1oz gold and silver coins are for resale only. 10oz Silver and Gold bars are from the Utah Mint. Keep it simple. Later, Platinum and Palladium 10oz Bars could be added as well. Market Niche: 1oz coinage buy/resale and 10oz bar Minting/selling. We will not compete with 100oz and 1000oz bars, as that is the REFINERY business. Nor will we be minting 1oz generics and sovereigns as that is the Government and refinery business. There are some competing 10oz bars, North West Territorial Mint.

( ) They are offering 10oz bars at 12.90 at 9.84 spot, which is only a $3/oz premium (this is low, but still good enough, 2x the target $15 bar production cost). However, supplies are unreliable and are very slow to ship. We will only sell what we have in stock, and cash on the barrel sales only.


Retail sales through web Pages.

Retail sales through on-line bullion depositories.

Retail sales through e-bay and publication advertisements.

Wholesale to dealers and coin shops.

CAFÉ BULLION Distribution

Derrick ships COMEX bars to Utah.

Utah Mint ships 10oz bars to distributor for resale.

Utah Mint could directly ship to customers, as things expand.

Coins are held locally in bank boxes, and are secured until sold.

Initially, we will use multiple BANK boxes at various local banks to store valuable coins. To minimize risks, we will pull them out only when sold for shipping. Eventually, after business is up-and-running, a formal secure place of business can be rented.

Customer Acceptance:

JM Bar Knock Off, Gold Bug Community Endorsements

Quality Made Bars, JM Comex Bar Stock 999 pure certifications

10oz Bar is most prized bar by retail customers


There will be no distribution facility from the get go, as it can operate out of the house until volume expands, which will then justify the expense.  Our goal is to keep initial expenses low.  Coins are secured in bank boxes, and big Comex bars are secured in private safes. The Comex bars can also be securely stocked at Utah Mint until melted.


Government Mints around the world have basically shut down. There is a high premium for small items (coins and small bars). .1oz silver eagles are selling for $7 premium and are not being produced, whereas 100oz bars are being produced and are selling at 40-50% premium, about $4.50 over spot. The premium for 10oz bars is at least 40% (target 15% Ag /7.5% Au minimum) over spot. This is the key, and the market is ready now, and should remain in this state for the foreseeable future. For resale of private coins, market premiums are obtained and are currently $90/oz for gold eagles and $7/oz for silver eagles.  

Team Players.

-Utah Mint: minter and producer of quality 10oz gold and silver bars. Needs to set up a small production capability.

Stackable 10oz bars, precisely 10.001 oz.

-Derrick: CAFÉ BULLION Distribution management. Interfaces with retail and wholesale outlets and organizes direct sales.

-Tanya: (Derrick's wife, is available) CAFÉ BULLION Accountant. Accounts receivables and payables, phone orders, collections, and product shipping.

-David: (Derrick's Brother, is available) tool maker, can assist in tooling at Utah as needed, and can, provide quality control inspections and review and supervise production process, if desirable, by Utah Mint.

-Hugh: (Derrick's Father, is available) retired tool maker, can consult on production line and tooling.

Utah Mint

Initial target price is $15 a bar to produce as recurring income to the Utah Mint from the distributor (Café Bullion).

Production ramp up: 200,000 silver bars in 2009, 3M$ profit.

At current prices is about $20M, with a 3M$ potential profit margin at today's prices and premiums. Double the production run in 2009 with 400K silver bars and 16K gold bars. Again, there is very low risk, as silver is silver regardless of form. The Market looks good until at least 2012.

Tooling can have multiple molds poured/stamping, producing many bars in a single pour and stamp operation, with deburring and weight measure verification. Again, Derrick only guesses here.

Exclusive and Captive source to the Distribution.

Understand that Derrick is not a tool/die expert and will need Utah Mint expertise in setting up the production line.  


Derrick put up tons of Comex 1000oz silver bars for melt.

Utah Mint establishes a small production line and finishing process. That is what is needed to start this minting business.

In addition, the CAFÉ Bullion distribution will include coinage resale. Derrick, or anyone, can put up as much silver and gold coins as they wish to complete the product line, and share in the premiums received over spot price, as agreed, ad-hoc.


-Utah Mint (need a logo for stamping bars), Café Bullion is a service mark distribution a line of "Café Bars".

-GATA (Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee) stamped on bars

for immediate build trademark recognition, and WORLD WIDE recognition as well. "GATA Café Bar"

-Le Metro Pole Café (Gold/Silver Bug Web Page Blog) stamped on bars for the Favorite web page of true gold and silver bugs. "LeMetroPole Café Bar tm".

-Utah Mint Logo on all Bars

-"GATA Café Bar 10oz .999 Fine Gold"

-LeMetroPole Café Bar 10oz .999 Fine Silver

Material Procurement.

Derrick monitors the PM market for dips in price, thus facilitating purchases of COMEX bars for melting and coins for resale. Additionally, this market-watch will determine when is best to put coin stock up for sale, or when to withdraw them from sale should the price drop too low. That is, the distribution can adjust raw material procurement and coin offering sales, each in a time sensitive manner that depends on market price fluctuation; thus, profits are maximized. Therefore, through continuously monitoring the market and systematically purchasing Comex bars at various dip prices, an extra profit margin above 40% will be realized.

The minting of new 10oz bars should be ongoing at a constant rate of production, merely changing the form of the bullion stores, even sales and replacement stock procurements are variably timed during the year, with all 10oz bars are exclusively made through Utah Mint, exclusively stored at the depository, and exclusively distributed through the distributor. The business model should be profitable for so long as the premium justifies production and distribution.


Currently, the premiums are high and it appears that the premiums should remain high for the FORSEEABLE FUTURE, at least the next 5 years. World-wide Gold and Silver production is expected to drop in the face of modest government minting, and with fiat paper money in serious trouble due to the current financial crisis, now is the time to enter this minting-distribution business in the 10oz market niche. Utah Mint should exclusive serve CAFÉ BULLION for five years and hopefully in perpetuity, but, can give CAFÉ BULLION, one year notice, if it wishes to sell directly to other distributors.


It seems that the timing is perfect. GATA came back with an understanding to enable me to license them. So, I have the two biggest guns in the manipulation world on board. Utah is a preferred place to have the mint and depository. My brother seems to indicate that it easy to do. My concern is repeatable production with precision. Here is a cheap start plan.

Boot Straps

The proposed business, depending upon funding acquired, can be brought up by the boot straps. Initially, I will sublease a section in a tool&die shop, wherein tooling is set up to melt the big Comex bars into 10oz bars. This should require about $250K, just for the tooling. My brother David, a mold maker by profession, is standing by and is more than capable of running the production line, ensuring repeated precision during production. You may not be aware of this, but between graduate studies, I actually designed tool&die plastic injection tooling for my brother Dave in his tool shop. We have the expertise required in house to design, make, and bring on-line the tooling.

The depository will initially be operated out of major banks. I am not concerned about the theft of the silver stores because of its massive weight. Gold is another story. In this regard, I have successfully, (shell game) moved my personal hoard from bank to bank, (depending upon their share price as I do not want the feds seizing a bank with my bullion in it). Wells Fargo, my personal bank, can be used for this purpose, and they have branches throughout the western US. Wells Fargo can be used effectively as the UTAH DEPOSITORY during the first year of operation. The distributorship can be run out of my garage. About $25K would be needed for setting up online facilities. This is the easy part. The production line, a hoard, and a web page are all that is needed to open the doors. I have a small hoard of $500K (it was $950K before the JPM decided to bomb bullion in July)

Funding for a pick ax.

Funding is required. Presently, I am seeking $2M to start it up. About $250-400K would be at risk in term of salvage value of the tooling in the event of failure. However, Bullion is Bullion, and risk is simply the market price. Hence, about 1/5 of this $2M would actually be at risk. With the government trying to get money into the hands of the folks to expand business, maybe Wells Fargo has a deal. I just do not know as of yet. Private financing is being sought and is being considered by a private person. Support for the Mint is presently being considered by a tool and die company in Utah, the planned ultimate base of the Mint between ID and NV for accessing mines supplies in Phase III. We have direct access to a Salt Lake City tool and die shop currently in operation. They are cooperative and the managers are now considering how to make our bars in quantity, given the marketing plan of honoring notables in the gold-bug world.


GATA Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee

New Orleans, USA, November 13-18, 2008

Promoter, Derrick Michael Reid, desires to start up a MINT and a DISTRIBUTOR for producing and selling 10oz gold and silver bars to put bullion in the hands of the public at fair prices.


A mission of the MINT and the DISTRUBUTOR is to buy big COMEX gold bars, and melt and mold them into smaller 10oz bars so as to reduce the supply of big COMEX bars on the exchanges while increasing bullion in the hands of the people. The desired effect is to physically increase the price of gold so that exchange manipulators with concentrated short positions are exposed to increasing gold prices so as to defeat exchange manipulation, a means by which THE GOLD CARTEL operates. GATA has a mission of teaching how the gold market is manipulated and affected by THE GOLD CARTEL. Hence, the MINT, DISTRIBUTOR, and GATA have mutually supporting missions. However, the MINT will only mint, and the DISTRIBUTOR will only sell, mostly through web pages, and both will leave the teaching of the gold manipulation by THE GOLD CARTEL to GATA.


The MINT and DISTRIBUTOR would like to honor GATA for its good work, by producing a 10oz "GATA" gold bar having printed on its back the following: "In Honor of GATA Gold-Anti Trust Action Committee." This is to promote trade recognition of GATA while providing a specialty prized gold bar for increased trade recognition of the MINT and the DISTRIBUTOR, all in a mutually supporting way. This can lead to GATA publications being displayed on the Distributor's web page so as to teach the public about the above-mentioned manipulation and reasons why owning gold helps free the markets from such manipulation. These "GATA" gold bars can provide GATA an income stream through regular contributions to GATA from the DISTRIBUTOR as a continuing royalty paid to GATA, and the gold bars can be used by GATA in fund raisers. (See Attachment)


The GATA Board of Directors resolve that Mr. Bill Murphy and/or Mr. Chris Powell are authorized to license "GATA" for use on gold bars.

                          Respectfully & Confidentially Submitted,  

                          Derrick Michael Reid, BSEE, JD, ESQ.

                          Engineer, Lawyer, Bullion Investor,

                          LeMetroPoleCafe Member, and

                          Published Bullion Commentator

            The "GATA" 10oz Troy Gold Bar


----------------------      ----------------------     

|                      |    |                      |    

|                      |    |         UM           |    

|                      |    |        [][]          |    

|     IN HONOR OF      |    |       [][][]         |    

|                      |    |                      |    

|                      |    |   U T A H  M I N T   |    

|                      |    |                      |    

|         GATA         |    |    Metal Minters     |    

|                      |    |                      |    

|Gold Anti-Trust Action|    |                      |    

|                      |    |         999          |    

|      Committee       |    |                      |    

|                      |    |       Fine GOLD      |    

|                      |    |                      |    

|                      |    |    10 Ounces Troy    |    

|  ------------------  |    |                      |    

|  --Signature Area--  |    |      311 Grams       |    

|  ------------------  |    |                      |    

----------------------      ----------------------     

                                    U M

 Licensed Use of "GATA"             [][]    Utah Mint Logo

                                   [][][]   (UM on 5 bars)


Licensed to the DISTRIBUTOR, "Café Bullion".

Signature Area is left Blank

Murphy's Signature using an Electronic Acoustic Pen




Promoter, Derrick Michael Reid, desires to start up a MINT and a DISTRIBUTOR for producing and selling 10oz gold and silver bars to put bullion in the hands of the public at fair prices.


A mission of the MINT and the DISTRUBUTOR is to buy big COMEX silver bars, and melt-mold them into smaller 10oz bars so as to reduce the supply of big COMEX bars on the exchanges while increasing bullion in the hands of the people. The desired effect is to physically increase the price of silver so that exchange manipulators with concentrated short positions are exposed to increasing silver prices so as to defeat exchange manipulation, a means by which the bullion banks operates. IR has a mission of teaching how the bullion banks have manipulated and affected the silver market. Hence, the MINT, DISTRIBUTOR, and IR have mutually supporting missions. However, the MINT will only mint, and the DISTRIBUTOR will only sell, mostly through web pages, and both will leave the teaching of the silver manipulation by the bullion banks to IR.


The MINT and DISTRIBUTOR would like to honor Mr. Butler and Investment Rarities for their good work, by producing a 10oz "IR" silver having printed on its back the following: "In Honor of Theodore Butler and Investment Rarities.” This will be done in order to promote trade recognition of IR while providing a specialty prized silver bar for increased trade recognition of the MINT and the DISTRIBUTOR, all in a mutually supporting way. This can lead to IR publications being displayed on the Distributor's web page so as to teach the public about the above-mentioned manipulation and reasons why owning silver helps free the markets from that manipulation. These "IR" silver bars can provide IR an income stream through regular contributions to IR from the DISTRIBUTOR as a continuing royalty paid to IR, and, the silver bars can be sold by IR on line. (See Attachment)


The IR Board of Directors resolve that Mr. Theodore Butler is authorized to license "IR" for use on silver bars.

                          Respectfully & Confidentially Submitted,  

                          Derrick Michael Reid, BSEE, JD, ESQ.

                          Engineer, Lawyer, Bullion Investor,

                          LeMetroPoleCafe Member, and

                          Published Bullion Commentator

            The "IR" 10oz Troy Silver Bar


----------------------      ----------------------     

|                      |    |                      |    

|                      |    |         UM           |    

|                      |    |        [][]          |    

|     IN HONOR OF      |    |       [][][]         |    

|                      |    |                      |    

|                      |    |   U T A H  M I N T   |    

|                      |    |                      |    

|  Theodore Butler     |    |    Metal Minters     |    

|        &             |    |                      |    

| Investment Rarities  |    |                      |    

|                      |    |         999          |    

|    Incorporated      |    |                      |    

|                      |    |     Fine Silver      |    

|                      |    |                      |    

|                      |    |    10 Ounces Troy    |    

|  ------------------  |    |                      |    

|  --Signature Area--  |    |      311 Grams       |    

|  ------------------  |    |                      |    

----------------------      ----------------------     

                                    U M

 Licensed Use of "Theodore Butler   [][]    Utah Mint Logo

and Investment Rarities".           [][][]   (UM on 5 bars)

 Licensed to the DISTRIBUTOR, "Café Bullion".

Signature Area is left Blank for Notable to personally sign.

Butler's Signature using an Electronic Acoustic Pen

Option to have lettering/signature rotated length wise of bar



            The "Utah" 10oz Troy Bar


----------------------    ----------------------

|   UM    /  \    UM   |  |                      |  

|  [][]  /    \  [][]  |  |         UM           |  

| [][][]/      \[][][] |  |        [][]          |  

| |                  | |  |       [][][]         |  

| |                  | |  |                      |  

| |                  | |  |   U T A H  M I N T   |  

| |  Personalizable  | |  |                      |  

| |                  | |  |    Metal Minters     |  

| |    Engraving     | |  |                      |  

| |                  | |  |                      |  

| |      Area        | |  |         999          |  

| |                  | |  |                      |  

| |                  | |  |     Fine Silver      |  

| |                  | |  |                      |  

| |____          ____| |  |    10 Ounces Troy    |  

|   UM \        / UM   |  |                      |  

|  [][] \      / [][]  |  |      311 Grams       |  

| [][][] \____/ [][][] |  |                      |  

----------------------    ----------------------


----------------------    ----------------------

|                 UM   |  |                      |

|                [][]  |  |         UM           |

|               [][][] |  |        [][]          |

|          UM          |  |       [][][]         |

|         [][]         |  |                      |

|        [][][]        |  |   U T A H  M I N T   |

|   UM                 |  |                      |

|  [][]                |  |    Metal Minters     |

| [][][]               |  |                      |

|                 UM   |  |                      |

|                [][]  |  |         999          |

|               [][][] |  |                      |

|          UM          |  |       Fine GOLD      |

|         [][]         |  |                      |

|        [][][]        |  |    10 Ounces Troy    |

|   UM                 |  |                      |

|  [][]                |  |      311 Grams       |

| [][][]               |  |                      |

----------------------    ----------------------

Personalizable Engraving Area is where private parties can

engrave messages by the purchasers, Option, Can't Hurt.

 Double or Triple, (and maybe Quadruple) Honorarium Backs


|           In Honor of                |

|                                      |

|    Theodore Butler & James Cook      |

|                                      |  An acoustical engraving

|     & Investment Rarities Inc.       |  Pen can be used to

|                                      |  personalize each bar.

|                                      |

|  ----------------------------------  |  Rotated 90 degrees

|           Signature Area             |

|  ----------------------------------  |

|                                      |



|           In Honor of                |

|                                      |

|  William Murphy & Christopher Powell |

|                                      |

| & Gold AntiTrust Action Committee    |

|                                      |

|                                      |

|  ----Customized-Back---------------  |

|           Signature Area             |

|  ----------------------------------  |

|                                      |


           Generic Bar Back


|  UM                              UM  |

| [][]                            [][] |

|[][][]                          [][][]| UM logo rotated 45 degrees

|               Personalized           | to fit nicely in the four

|                Engraving             | corners of bar to border

|                  Area                | and maximize engraving

|               Generic Back           | area.  

|                                      |

|  UM                              UM  |

| [][]                            [][] |

|[][][]                          [][][]|


The Front of the Gold/Silver Bars remains the same. The Back is changed for Generic or Customized backs. The back tolling plates are thus swapped out for respective production runs. This minimizes tooling and production complexity, which allows for the introduction of new customized backs. For example, by tooling a back plate with "In honor of James Sinclair and JSMINESET," a new gold bar is thus created at minimal expense, but with immediate and huge national and international recognition. The numbers of reasons why this mint business will work are OFF the charts. The main task is to set up a low-cost but low-profit mint of 10oz gold and silver bars. We have great advantage here by using GATA and LeMetroPoleCafe association for marketing. WE WOULD TRULY BE UNIQUE in the BUSINESS and would obtain immediate world-wide recognition. Private exchanges are being set up now (Shelby), and more channels of sales are available. Here are the drivers:

1) Stable minting business, wont get rich minting bars in Utah at 15$/bar, but would provide a small profit center and some employment.

2) Provide a private channel to buy/sale coins, thus capturing premiums (and thus bypass and capture dealers' premiums).

3) Funneling of private dollars for risk free bullion buys.

Lets say Derrick is the SILVER bullion Comex bar supplier to CAFE BULLION. Derrick uses personal money to buy big bars that are then loaned to CAFE BULLION, (it is initially a lease of metal personally to CAFE BULLION while the metal is held in stock). THEREAFTER, a designated sale of metal occurs when it is melted at the Mint. Derrick is also the GOLD bullion Comex bar buyer. Gold is now 75x Silver in price, and the mint will need Gold bullion Comex bar supplies from CAFE BULLION. Cafe Bullion is the exclusive supplier of Comex bars to the Mint.

A) The depository buys big COMEX bars, loaned or leased to cafe bullion as raw material allocated stock pile. The PRICE of bullion DROPS after we buy. We immediately swap the bullion credit for the "Comex bullion bar" (the raw material stock, at Cafe Bullion) to "in stock" (finish product 10oz bar) credit (a mere accounting entry), and we sell the finish stock at a low profit margin using the price paid for the Comex bullion bar. The premiums are sufficient to cover that drop in price, and even though the price dropped, we are out of harms way with a low profit (and low taxes). The bars fed to the mint for melt are fed in order of highest price paid for Comex bars, so as to keep as large as possible (wealth) our CAPITAL GAINS in the raw stock pile. We can funnel profits back into this stock-pile, and build a hoard.

B) The depository buys big bar COMEX bars, allocated to cafe bullion raw material allocated stock-pile, but the PRICE of bullion go UP. We hold the bullion stock, store that bullion, sell it back to dealers a year later, and obtain capital gains on the unused Comex bars. We buy our raw stock based upon market timing, to maximize profit on the sale of finished of stock. If we buy the raw stock at very well timed buys, we, through accounting swapping, obtain capital gains. If we buy the raw stock at very poor timed buys, we can still profit on the stock buy, if we immediately designate the raw stock to finished product, and sell it at low profit. If we buy the raw stock at a so-so good buy, we flow the bullion through to finished product, and make one "good" profit. And so the bull-run continues - the recurring sales would certainly on average be for good profit.

So, this plan allows us to control and allocate the flow of material and the designation of big Comex bars, through the pipeline.  It allows us to time our buys of big Comex bars, to time our sells of our product line, and allows us to put up personal money, as desired, to buy big allocated BULLION bars held as raw material. Later, based upon SUBSEQUENT price movement, we can either: save for resale of raw stock for low capital gains taxes; get out quick at a low profit margin, or; feed the production line for recurring good profits.

The plan allows for lower risk bullion investment (the premium is the price buffer for risk free purchases of BULLION) while obtaining through normal pipeline processing an on going profit for the sale of finished product.

The combination of the Utah Mint and Cafe Bullion, Private Loans of Raw STOCK, the limited product range in view of high premiums, allows risk free capital gain investment when we buy really good. It allows for retaining our exiting position with a profit even when we buy really bad. And it allows for a continuous profit stream when we buy and regularly feed product through the pipeline. We use the UTAH MINT and Cafe Bullion to allows us, as private individuals, to invest in BIG COMEX bars, risk-free. People are in fear, so, we should be in Greed. Lets always keep our eye on the ball and the objectives. When the people are in Greed, we should be in Fear, (and cash out the big bullion COMEX bar hoards accumulated at the blow off top in price).

Derrick Michael Reid

Utah Mint Promoter

Utah Mint's 10oz Bar Mint Production Line

The Utah Mint seeks cost effective production of 10oz gold and silver bars. The Generic Plancet Minting process is too extensive, and hence, the thinking outside the mint box. The Utah Mint will have specific needs for minting bars: 1) Generic Fronts on Au and Ag Bars have Lettering & Logo with all bars having same Length and Width for stacking, but the Au bar is thinner in Height because of density difference; 2) Smooth polished back surface, with interchangeable lettering, that are either, polished blank, repetitive Logo, or various custom lettering; and 3) 100oz Au and 1000 Oz Ag bar 999 fine are input material that should be simple to load such as by mere throwing the comex bars into a hopper. One can design a hopper, receiving many large bars, feeding into a melter, feeding into a red hot liquid metal reservoir for tilt pouring liquid metal. The liquid metal can be poured into a replicated bar mold in a bar casting process, or, into a replicated strip mold in a bar stamping process. The liquid metal is tilt poured feeding into a large bar mold having replicated bar molds for pouring 100 bars at a time for forming 100 bars as finished product at one a time. Alternatively, the liquid hot metal is tilt poured into a large strip mold having 10 replicated strip molds for forming ten strips of metal at a time, each of which strip is then punched for striking 10 10oz bars for 100 bars per pour. The 10oz bars will have interchangeable back script. The same LxW of all 10oz bars and with interchangeable backs only, provide a complete product line specification that is used to enable the tooling to be specifically designed to meet those specifications but with maximized production throughput being key with modular stations for incremental increases in production.

Bar Casting

                    10x10 Bars                       100 Bar

1000oz  Tilt-Pour    Cavity                           Wholesale


  ^              Replicated    Debur    Weigh   100 Plastic Slips

  |            Bar Separation   Polish  Measure 10 Cardboard Boxes

    ------------ Recycle Scrap     ^              Bubble Wrap

                                   |            10x10oz per box

============================= Alternative      10 boxes 100 bars

                          Production Methods       1000oz

Bar Stamping                        |                      


1000oz Tilt-Pour   10xStrips        |

Melt--Reservoir-----Mold-------Punch 10 Strips

^               Replicated   Strike 10 Strips

|          Strip Separation  into 100 10oz Bar

 -------------Recycle Scrap

               Utah Mint's Bar Stamping Process

Hopper <------ 1000oz Ag and 100oz Au Comex Bar Feed



\/      Tilt-Pour   10xStrips         

Melter--Reservoir---Strip-Mold---Punch 10 Strips

^                 Replicated   Strike 10 Strips

|             Strip Separation  into 100 10oz Bar

 ----------------Recycle Scrap        |




 \/                     Wholesale


Debur     Weigh      100 Plastic Slips

Polish   Measure    10 Cardboard Boxes

                    Bubble Wrap

                  10x10oz per box

The strip molding step is independent of the punching step for independent production quantities of blank strips and the resulting custom bars. Each Strip is 10 bars long, so 10 bars are struck in one punch, or each strip is punched ten times in sequence. The Strip's thickness in the 10 strips formed in the strip mold is adjustable so as to precisely control the height, and therefore, the weight of the 10oz bars. The back lettering is what changes, and hence, means for controlling weight of respectively bars. Strip molds for matching to respective custom backings can be made for weight control, if necessary.

MODULAR PRODUCTION LINE of multiple stations as needed.

Secure Staging Area.(Input Material Accounting)

  Stack up securely large bars from mint for melt.

  High quantity maximized through put is key.

  Fixed WxL 10oz bars only with Interchangeable backings.

Strip Station

  Includes Hopper, Melter, Reservoir, and Strip Mold

  Optionally includes a polisher.

  Recycling of Mold Scrap to Hopper

Striking Station  (Scrap Material Accounting)

  Includes press for punching and stamping stripes into bars

  Recycling of Punch Scrap to Hopper

Finishing Station

  Deburring, Polishing, Inspecting, and Weighing

Shipping Station  (Output Material Accounting)

  Each bar is package in an individual plastic slip.

  10 Bars Au or Ag in one unit box.

  10 units boxes into a wholesale box for 1000oz.

  Ship Wholesale boxes to Depository, Distributor, or Wholesalers.

Existing State-of-the-Art Bar Stamping Process

Generic Planchet Minting: Die Sculpting, Die Tooling, ========== Melting (poured billets), Extruding (billets into strips), Rolling (strips into sheets), Blanking ( punching Planchets),  Polishing (Blanks),=====Striking (stamping the blanks),  Finishing (electroplating, deburring, polishing), Packaging=============================================

Custom Minting (Described by NORTHWEST TERRITORIAL MINT)

Your Idea: Your Custom Coin.

The process of creating a custom coin starts and ends with your unique vision. We provide you with countless ways to express that vision - through distinct shapes, crisp finishes, and detailed designs that perfectly capture your message.


Concepts and Ideas Made Real

Whether you have a crystal clear picture of the design you want or you're still searching for ideas, our experts can help. Though your rough sketches or finished artwork are always welcome, they're certainly not necessary.

Our in-house artists can take whatever reference materials you supply and turn them into a design to meet your exact specifications. If you would like a specific image on your medallion, such as a corporate logo, we do request that you provide a high-resolution digital image, photograph, or camera-ready art to ensure complete accuracy in our reproduction.

Once artwork is developed, we move on to sculpting.

The Sculpt

To create medallions featuring extraordinary depth and texture, our trained artisans first produce a hand-designed plaster sculpt. This three-dimensional sculpt is then used to create the steel coining dies. The finished product is a medallion with exceptionally deep relief that you can see and feel.

Once the medallion is done, we use it to create the dies.

Note: This process is not utilized for every design, but, it may be an option that you want to consider for your custom piece.


Two hardened steel dies, each engraved with a unique design, are used to strike your custom medallion. These dies can either be rendered with two dimensional or three dimensional engraving, depending on the complexity of your design and the look you want for your finished coin. Corporate logos or slogans can often best be replicated using a two-dimensional die. Portraits, landscapes, and other highly detailed imagery typically require use of a three-dimensional die.

When the dies are ready, we turn our attention to the process of creating blanks. This usually starts with the melting.

The Melt

We're proud of the fact that we're a full-service mint, with the capability of completing every step of the minting process on site at our 42,000 square-foot facility. Our unparalleled expertise in working with metals in every form and at every stage of the production process is evident in the tangible quality of each product we create.

Creating the Billet

In our on-site metal processing facility, gold and silver are melted down and poured into billets. These are then pressed through a small rectangular opening, drawing them into long thin strips of soft annealed metal.

Once the billets are created, it is time for extruding.


From Billet to Sheet

The solid metal forms referred to as "billets" are dislodged from the steel containers and transported to the billet oven (shown at right), where they are reheated for 15 minutes at approximately 1,000 degrees Fahrenheit in preparation for the next step in the process. Using specially designed channel locks to collect the heated billets from the oven, technicians load the billets into a massive machine called an extruder, which operates under extreme pressure to fashion the heated forms into thin strips of soft, annealed metal. The extruded strips are then sent to for rolling where they are rolled.


Strips Are Rolled

Once the long, thin strips of extruded metal have cooled, they are trimmed using a hydraulic shearer and prepared for rolling. A highly precise instrument called a micrometer is used to calibrate the precise thickness of each strip of metal. Next, the strips are individually fed into a high-pressure rolling machine and gathered for the next step in the process. After each strip has been rolled, it is inspected to ensure that it meets the specifications for thickness.

After the strips have been rolled, they are then sent to the blanking machine.


The strips of metal are rolled down to the exact thickness required to achieve the proper size-to-weight ratio so the pressed medallion will meet certified specifications. The strips are then run through the 'blanking' press which punches out blank discs of metal. These are then scrupulously cleaned in preparation of striking the medallion.

After blanking, the discs are sent to be polished to ready them for the strike.


Preliminary Finishing

After the coin blanks or "planchets" are removed from the blanking press, they are placed in a special vibratory finishing machine, which uses thousands of tiny ball bearings, suspended in a solution of soap and warm water, to smooth out any remaining rough spots.

The planchets are then gently hand-dried in preparation for striking.


What Makes a Coin a Coin

The polished blanks are firmly secured in a round collar, located inside the large automatic minting press between the top and bottom dies. On each strike of the press, the impact of the dies on the blank within the collar force the metal to "flow" into the recesses of the die, giving each finished medallion its unique appearance.

After being struck, the coins are then put through the finishing process.


The Final Touches

Though the medallion is a finished work of art in itself, we offer many alternative finishing options. A medallion can be antiqued, or our enameling artists can hand-paint it into a one-of-a-kind original. We have also developed proprietary techniques in the process of applying 24K gold-plate on selected areas of silver medallions, an option we call "GoldSelect". The medallion is then packaged.


The finishing touches on your coin or medallion can be as important as the image itself. Northwest Territorial Mint offers a variety of packaging options for your finished medallions. Most commonly, each is sealed in a clear Lucite protective capsule and encased in a plush lined leatherette display box.


For the ultimate in presentations, we offer the coin or medallion embedded in a Lucite form. Many shapes are available, call for which one works best for your display.


Utah Depository:

Sole Proprietorship DMR DBA Utah Depository.

Au Ag $ percentages allocated to members.

Orders Production from Mint.

Orders Procurement of 1oz Coins from coin dealers.

Orders Procurement of comex bars from refiners and dealers.

Ships 10oz bars to Wholesalers and Clearers and CaféBullion.

Members can designate active and inactive bullion positions.

Inactive bullion may be charged a storage fee.

Active Bullion is not charge a storage fee.

Active bullion is paid interest depending on depository profits.  

Utah Mint:

Sole Proprietorship: DMR

Tooling Ownership: DMR DBA Utah Mint

Production contracts UM with tool&Die Company

Receive Bullion from Depository

Deliver 10oz Bars to the Depository.

Tool&Die Company pays for and build tooling and line for DMR.

Sales to Depository amortizes out of pocket costs of the tooling.

Sales to Depository generates income for tool&Die company.

Tool&Die Company can agree to increase production stations.


Sole Proprietorship: DMR

License Ownership: DMR DBA Café Bullion

Orders 10oz Bars and 1oz coins from the Mint.

Direct Web Retail Sales.

Takes orders for Wholesales and Clearing.

Takes order for retail sales.

Sends all wholesale and clearing orders to the Mint.

Sends all retail orders to the Mint.

Receives all retail orders from the Mint.

Directly ships to on-line retail sales.

Utah Depository Operation Metrics

Gold Au, Silver Ag, and cash $ are held by the depository.

Members deposit Au, Ag, or $ into the Depository.

Zero percent interest rate with a 180 day redemption notice.

Upon deposit of contribution, there is a transaction fee.

Cash Ratio: $ / Au + Ag + $ in the Depository.

Gold Ratio: Au/Ag+Au in the Depository.

Gold Silver Ratio: Ag:Au is the Ag:Au Ratio base upon spot.

Members are assigned a percentage, meaning that, the members are allocated that percentage of the Au, Ag, $ in the depository. The percentage is adjusted as additional members join, quarterly adjustments are realized, along with contributions and redemption. During Redemption, and all gains (interest-capital gains) may be paid in bullion if desired.

Ratio Variability

The $/Au+Ag+$ cash ratio varies typically between 30% and 70%.

The Au/Au+Ag gold ratio varies typically between 30% and 70%.

Quarterly Reports: Au, Ag, $=deposit, plus AR and AP.

As more members join, and more production stations are brought on line, the volume of bars sold increases. The earliest members should have more gains from multiple cycling of metal dominated by the earliest investors.  

Examplar Deposition:

Ag=100Koz Au=50Koz $=3M  (end of quarter reporting)

Ag: 100,000oz x Ag-spot + Au: 50,000 oz x Ag-spot, + cash $:3,000,000.00 =  1M$ +5M$ + 3M$ = 9M$ Cash Equivalence

Au + $(Au/AuAg)Au-Spot  Gold Equivalence Reported

Ag + $(Ag/AuAg)Ag-Spot  Silver Equivalence Reported

Member      Percentage    Gold    Silver    Cash


Member 1:   05.000%     2500ozAu  5KozAg    150K$

Member 2:   20.000%     10KozAu   20KozAg   600K$

Member 3:   50.000%     25KozAu   50KozAg   1.5M$

Member 4:   25.000%     12500ozAu 25KozAg   750K$


Mint:      100.000%     50KozAu  100KozAg   3M$


Depository:             0ozAu    46810ozAg    0$

Member DMR 100.000%     0ozAu    46810ozAg    0$


Depository Member Accounting Operations

Depository Mechanics:

The Depository is operated as though Gold and Silver are effectively currencies, with gold being the dominate reporting currency of choice, and hence, there are three currencies, Gold (Au), Silver (Ag), and Dollars $. Gold and Silver prices are based upon COMEX and WORLD spot prices. Contributions can be in the form of cash, Ag, and Au, bars and coins, and all are reduced, based upon Au spot, to a Gold Ounce Equivalence GOE, which is spot value of gold regardless of form, spot value of silver regardless of form, and actual cash in FRNs, contributed by a member, with all contributions summed together, and divided by Au spot price for a number GOE contribution. At the end of each quarter, gains and losses are allocated to the members in any proportion that the depository chooses. Members do not receive a strict percentage of gains, but rather the depository sets the allocations in GOE gains to the respective members.


There is a risk that the number of depository GOE can actually fall such as when price rises with cash position 30%-70%, even though the net cash value of the GOE rises. There is a risk that the cash value of the GOE falls such as when bullion prices fall. There is a risk that the GOE and cash value both fall, as well. These rises and falls are normal market actions. It is the Year-Over-Year data that is significant. Because the Mint enables the rapid sales, bullion purchased at high prices can be quickly sold in attempt to avoid reduction of GOE. These are significant risks.

YOY GOE Increases:

The depository will generally seek to maintain YOY GOE increases for each member, the increases being effectively capital gains of the GOE contributions, and are reported in terms of GOE in the depository operating reporting currency. The depository may liquidate any portion of the bullion at any time, usually seeking then to capture blow-off tops in price to maximize cash value at selected times. The depository will generally seek to adjust sales, procurement, production, cash ratios, and gold ratios to maintain increasing amount of GOE yoy, but with an eye to cash in at blow-off tops in prices. The depository will seek to buy the dips while bullion remains in a bull market for increase the GOE.  

Operator Discretion:

The depository has complete management control over all of the assets and functions of the depository. The depository manager controls include the discretionary allocation of quarterly increases of the total GOE to the respective members at the end of each quarter; the buying of stock; selling of inventory, setting of production level at the Mint, etc. As the bullion markets are seasonal, a 180 day advance notice from a reporting quarterly date is required, to enable the exit/enter of positions at favorable prices, to prepare for shipment of member's bullion or payment in cash.

Any member can therefore, place their gold bullion in the depository acquiring a GOE therein with a percentage allocation. As bullion remains in the depository, the member's allocated bullion can be cycled through the mint to wholesalers to cash to repurchase more bullion, providing a means to increase the member's GOE allocation over time. As such, the depository become a BULLION BANK, paying interest in species.

Cash Flows

The Mint will charge the Depository for producing each bar.

The Mint will charge so as to amortize the costs of tooling, and pay for wages and expenses, plus a marginal profit. The Mint operates at a constant production rate. If demand exceeds the constant production rate for extended periods, addition worker shifts, or adding of more production stations and workers.

The Depository will charge for expenses in operation, plus a marginal profit. Expenses include shipping of finished product to customers.

The Distributor will charge for expenses in operation, plus a marignal profit. The Distributor is the cash flow management center directing Mint production, Despository shipments, Wholesale, Clearing, and Retail orders, and all sales are received by the Distributor, which then orders shipment from the depository, and order production at mint, which production should be at a constant rate. Mint only changes the form of the bullion and the mint can continue even when sales are lower or higher than production.  

Profit Drivers

The key profit drivers are high premiums and low production costs. As the Gold and Silver bars are fixed in sized, the production tooling is specifically tailored for producing only those bars so as to provide minimual costs of production and minimal cost of tooling. The high percentage premiums (40% or 4$ at 10$/oz) should last as long as the price of silver is low, less than 20$, for example, but as the price increases, and the percentage decreases, but the premium relative amount should stay high, (20% or 4$ at 20$/oz for example), and remain relatively high, indefinitely or for the forseeable future. In gold, the relative dollar costs of production is minimal. Silver, being 30-70:1 lower in price is much more sensitive to relative production costs, and is where tight premiums are maintained. On the other hand, gold is more highly traded in dollor volume, as the precentage of the premium is much lower, but, the relative value of the gold to the cost of production is not the driver, marketing is the driver in gold, whereas low production costs is a main driver in silver. So, if silver is profitable, gold will be much more profitable, so focus is on the profit margin for a 10oz silver bars.


Silver Bar Profit Example

A target of 15% for silver and 5% for gold.

(Ebay sold a silver eagle for 124% over spot recently,

a 15% profit margin is reasonable and gives wholesalers margins for sales, as 10$/oz silver is used for example, and silver is expected to explode up in price, which will increase the profits per bar.

So, 10$/oz is used as a low-ball worst-case COMEX spot price.

At 10$/oz silver for a 10oz bar, that is 15$ profit.

The silver is sold at a 1.50$/oz premium at 10$/oz.

That is 15$ per bar profit.

This 15$ profit is effectively divided between the Mint, Members, Depository, and Distributor.  

The 15$ profit per bar can be split, for example:

5$/bar profit may be for production costs,

5$/bar profit may be for increase in member bullion,

  which is the interest paid in species

3$/bar may be for Depository Costs; and

2$/bar may be for Distribution Costs.

A target split, is that, the MINT and MEMBERS and DEPOSITORY/DISTRIBUTOR might just split profits 1/3 each.

Worst case, 5$ is made by a member on a 10oz 100$ bar processed. This is a 5% increase in bullion, (the interest paid in species), EACH TIME THE BULLION IS PASSED through the mint, and that can be done several times a year, offering multiples of the 5% return per year, and a target of 15% is desirable for an annual return of bullion on bullion, hence, a true FOR-PROFIT bullion bank-depository.



Now, for the most important part, PROFITS.

There are two main profit drivers, 1) costs of production, and 2) premiums. Premiums are pretty much assured, given the mine supplies inter alia. IT IS THE COST OF PRODUCTION that is of concern. Indications are that production is easy, but, can it be done profitably? Can you turn a profit producing a 10oz silver bar at 10$/oz silver?

If the bars are dimensionally specified in advance, predetermined to be the same WxL for both gold and silver bars, the trick, would be to design a high-throughput production process that takes advantage of that fixed predetermined sizing to custom build a production line for that specific purpose. Our specificity in bars should give us production costs advantage over any other mint producing bars or coins at any size or design. I suggested a production method and a station based modular production plan, though, I am not expert in tool design and production. That is for the production manager to work out and confirm its viability.

If a production line can be set up, at about 5$/bar at worst case 10$/oz silver, then the profit margin is there. If, and I expect it to, silver moves up in price, then the profits per bar would increased. So, I consider the profitability re a 10$/oz 10oz silver bar, the worst-case production situation. The business model is sound, but, and the production costs determined at what price production can be sustained. If the price drops to low, production continues, but sales are limited, until the price recovers.

With 8.5T$ bailouts already funded by the government, and with OBAMA coming in and saying he is about ready to really crank-it-up, I expect the dollar to collapse, down to 60 on the index. It could reach 92 on the index, but is now struggling at 86. When the forced fund redemptions stops, and when OBAMA starts his crank-it-up new new deal spending, the dollar will implode sending bullion much higher. Now is the time to stake out a bullion business and pan for profits.

Derrick Michael Reid

Utah Mint Promoter


Utah Mint:

The Utah Mint can be a Division of AKTC DBA "Utah Mint".

Maybe later corporation owned by AKTC and/or Utah Depository,

AKTC designs, buys, installs, and operates the production line.

AKTC is the Operator under the tradename "Utah Mint".

DMR has rights to production line trade-secret designs.

AKTC has licensed use of "Utah Mint" name.

AKTC has licensed use of bar sizing and interchangeable backing.

Captive Source of Minted PM products to the Utah Depository.

Mint Sub-licenses from DMR Honorariums.

2 year notice to the Depository to quit, which terminates the license of "Utah Mint", and the Honorariums, and DMR can copy the production line design, and start up another "Utah Mint".

Produce in 10packs, with production serial numbers.

The stock COMEX bars have serial numbers.

Hence, the tracking of material from JM serial number to production serial numbers for proving that the bar is 999 real.

Utah Depository:

Sole Proprietorship DMR, Later a Sub-S Corporation.

Derrick Principal Operator

Main Control Center

Sub License from DRM Honorariums.

Initially stores bullion at AKTC and Bank Boxes.

Then, a secure facility juxtapose the Utah Mint.

Utah Depository Membership:

Bar and Coins are separately accounted for each member, across all products of interest. 1oz Coins and 10oz 100oz 1000oz 5000oz bars in the inventory. While in depository inventory, the 10pack boxes have production serial numbers labeled on the boxes and packling slips, for allocation to members, and for allocated sales. Coins are restricted to only US gold and silver 1oz coins in the depository, and are accounted by Quanity, year, metal content, and strike, such as, 100, 1998, 1oz-Silver, Eagles.

MEMBERS: Derrick#1     0Au 47KozAg O$

        ???    #2     0Au   0Ag   0$

Café Bullion:

Sole Proprietorship DMR

Later a Sub-S Corporation

License to use honorariums

Wholesalers and Clearers are trade secret information.

Sub License Mint and Depository

Derrick Operator


Current tracking of Premiums at Wholesale Level.

Tulving is the best wholesale indicator.

CNI is best for 10oz Generic Competition


1 Kilo JM Au   15$/oz 15/822 = 1.8%

10oz   UM Au Utah Mint Niche = 5.0%  Gold Target Premium

1oz Eagle Au   69$/oz 69/822 = 8.4%  (as high as 11%)


1000oz JM Ag    59c/oz 59/1022 = 05.8%

100oz JM Ag   1.49/oz 149/1022 = 14.6%

10oz UM Ag  Utah Mint Niche    = 15.0% Silver Target Premium

10oz CNI      3.00/1022        = 29.3% (Direct Competition)   

1oz Eagle Au 3.99/1022         = 39.0% (as high as 70%) =========================================

The 15% Ag and 5% Au are good UM premium targets at current prices.

With shortages to increase at current prices, premiums should move up. With prices expected to increase, premiums should move higher in absolute dollar prices. There is an expected doubling of the profit margins, but at worst case 800/10, the profit margin is there, and should be viable for the forseeable future. Mine supplies are in a 5 year decline, and that is expected to continue.

The business model and target premium pricing are sound for the forseeable future. Key remain, production costs on the 10oz Ag bar.


172M$ in the depository, at 132M$ gold wholesales and 40M$ silver wholesales per year. The 40M$ silver wholesales x 15%= 6M$ silver profits, and the 132M$ gold wholsales x 5% = 7M$ gold profits. Depository Maximum Size in Phase I:40M$/10$/oz = 4M oz, or 400K bars; and 132M$/800$/oz = 160K oz or 16K bars, when 400KAg and 16KAu bars are cycled through the Mint, at 800$/oz and 10/oz.

At, a total of 13M$ in profits, 33% is expected to be returned to members, that is, $4.3M in profits for the contributing members.

The return of bullion contribution to the depository FOR ONE ROUND TRIP, is 4.3/172M, or 2.5% return, that is in species, paid bullion contributing members. Worst Case is 2.5% returns per round trip of bullion cycling. Two round trips is 5% return on deposited species, paid in species, at worst case silver and gold prices. ==Two=Production=Lines===================

Round trips bullion through the 208 days/year production line.

1000 bars/day 200 days/year is 200K bars, or 2M oz of Ag.

1000 bars/day 8 days/year is 8K bars, or 80K oz of Au.

Two production lines, for 4MozAg and 16KozAu processed.

So, the gold runs would require much much less production capacity.

The two production lines, should be gold/silver and backing interchangeable, and hence, clean line, swap metal, swap backing, and run. So, two Au/Ag Backing interchangeable production lines are required in phase I, to use either metal, and any backing.


Utah Mint 4.3M$ in Gross Revenues:

The Mint produces 400K Ag bars and 16K Au bars each year, based upon 208 day production year and 2 concurrent production lines. Each production line should have 1000 bar/day capacity being the same in design and can process gold or silver with interchangeable backings. Each year's production, based upon a fully funded 172M$ depository. The gross revenues to the Mint should be expected is 4.3M$ year, but minimum revenues should be at 5$/bar, or $2,032,000/year at full production at worst case bullion prices. This should pay for the production lines during the first year of operation. The Mint is operated as an independent profit center.

Members 4.3M$ in Gross Returns

At a fully operational depository, member's interest paid in species should be minimally 2.5%/year on 4.3M$ profit returns at full production. This returns to the member profits on deposited bullion in the depository.

Depository  2.6M$ in Gross Profits

The depository may take 3/5 of the 4.3M$ gross profits allocated for sales, or 2.6M$ in profits at full production at worst case bullion prices. The depository is operated as an independent profit center.

Distributor 1.7M$ in Gross Profits

The depository may take 2/5 of the 4.3M$ gross profits allocated for sales, or 1.7M$ in gross profits at full production at worst case bullion prices. The distributor is operated as an independent profit center.


Phase I, by end 2009, have two production lines in operation with wholesale channel established. Production Steady State includes 172M$ deposited in the depository. The 2 production lines, gold/silver, are interchangeable with interchangeable backings.  

Production tragets/Capacity 400K bars silver and 16K bars gold. Total of 4M oz of silver 160K oz of gold. Total of 40M$ silver and 132M$ of gold. 40M$ x 0.15= 6M$ gross profits. A total of 132$ x 0.05= 7M$ gross profits for gold. Total of 13M$ gross profit per year. With With 1/3 cuts Mints, Members, Sales, is 4.3M$ per year profit for the Mint, 4.3M$ of profit is returned to the members, 2.7M$ profit is for depository operations, and 1.6M$ profit is for distributor operations.


Known Current 10oz Gold and Silver Bar Producers/Suppliers.


First Majestic Silver 10oz

American Precious Metal Exchange (APMEX) Silver 10oz

Northwest Territorial Mint Silver 10oz Pan American Silver

Sunshine Mint Silver 10oz under A-MARK brand Tulving

Silvertowne Silver 10oz sold through APMEX

Heraeus silver 10oz BullionDirect CMX


Pamp Suisse Gold 10oz CNI Tulving NWTM Serial Number 45mm x 89mm

Johnson-Matthey 10oz Gold supplied by MONEX/Goldline Brand New)

Haeraus 10oz gold (Monex Special M Label, bar design very poor)


Engelhard 10oz gold supplied by outlet ????

Can find any on line??? must have never or now don’t produce


CMI: "Although Engelhard and Johnson-Matthey bars are two of the world’s largest refiners, they have not mass-produced silver bars since the mid-1980s"

CMI Gold & Silver Inc. presently has no 10-oz silver bars for sale, and it does not look like we will have them until next year.

No Longer Producing:

Wallstreet Mint Silver 10oz sold through CMI

Engelhard Silver 10oz BullionDirect CMX (likely Used??)

Johnson-Matthey Silver 10oz BullionDirect CMX (likely Used??)  


Engelhard stopped turning out silver bars in the mid-1980s, and Engelhard 10-oz bars are available only in the secondary market, which is rarely. Investors wanting 10-oz silver bars will probably have to choose between Sunshine Minting or Wall Street Mint 10-oz bars, which are the two premier bars currently being produced.

Competitive Production of 10oz silver and gold bars.


First Majestic

Out of stock 12/24/08


North West Terriotrial Mint.

PAAM Pan American Mines.

Sizes Available

Gold bullion bars are available in the 1 Troy ounce size. In addition, the Swiss Pamp gold bullion bar has limited availability in the 10 Troy ounce size.


JM 10oz bar???

Monex carries JM gold 10oz, JM 100oz silver bars,

but do not see Silver 10oz.




JM, Engelhard, and Hareras produced 10oz bars, but not sure if they still produce the 10 oz bar. "These bars have an awsome mirror like finish and are from a Well known CMX Mint Heraeus".



CMI silver, Wall street mint.



Sunshine Mint

10 ounces (311.035 grams) 2.05" X 5.13" Silver

10 ounces 2.05" X 3.55" Gold




Sold through APMEX,000_oz.aspx?gclid=CNWjjsnb8pcCFRNOagod7nd_Cw


Apmex Silver Mines? Just don’t know who is the mint???


2.5$ over spot, 25% premium


Apparently made by Sunshine Mint. A-Mark 10oz silver bars.

AMARK 10oz silver bars, now at tulving.

Premium is 20% at 2$ premium at 10$ silver,

only in quantites of 100 x 10oz bars.

Apparently, no direct retail.

In the resale market, going for 179, which is 70%!!!

A-Mark 10 Oz Silver Bar .999 Fine in Sleeve

Other products by A-Mark

on amazon: 4 used & new available from $179.00

From Tulving: BRAND NEW, 10 Oz. Amark Silver Bars (MADE By Sunshine) Pure .999 BU Silver, 100 Bar Minimum. < 1000oz min 1.99 over spot.

Also Tulving: Misc. Pure .999 BU 10 oz Silver Bars 500 Oz Minimum, and on resale misc bars is also 1.99 over spot, but 500oz Minimum, not brand new, various old/current mint.

Tulving Dealer 2$ 20% over spot in 100 x 10oz qty.

What is amazing on amazon, are the retail sales prices

179  80%

199  100%

300  200%!!!!!!!!!!

330  that is a wapping 230% over spot!!!!

ebay  3 x 10oz for 429  143 or 43% over spot.

Ebay 169  65%

buy it now 179. (matches amazon)


Can not find 10oz gold, except PAMP SUISSE.

Tulving, NCI, APMEX, and NWTM carry them. NO OTHER KNOWN!!!!

ONLY ONE COMPETITIVE mint, and it’s a swiss producer, no US.

NWTM sells 10oz Pamp Suisse 8750 spot gold sold for 9236 =5.5%

Tulving SOLD OUT

NCI $9240.00

APMEX $9279 5.5%

APMEX lists JM and Englehard, but I those are old bars,

Very competive at 5.5% or $100/bar  20x our target cost!!!

10 Oz Gold Bar - Pamp Suisse With Cert

Monex had JM 10oz Gold bars, and Heraeus Monex Gold bars.

Monex must be big. Yes, confirmed on call, JM does make 10oz gold.

Heraeus: "Each bar is certified, with its weight and purity guaranteed by Monex, and each bar is further hallmarked by Heraeus, one of the world's leading refiners, and the 800 year-old Austrian Mint, one of the world's leading minting institutions." Dimensions are strange.

Suppliers/Wholesaler's Retail Outlets


1) American Precious Metal Exchange - (Credit cards ok, immediate shipping!).

2) Gold and Silver Now - (no 1 oz coins, bars only).

3) Gold Money - (like PayPal, except with Gold. Suitable for IRAs).

4) Miles Franklin - (No visible way to purchase products).

5) Sprott Money - (Canadian Maples for $14.94/oz).

6) First Majestic (Mining Company!) Canada- (Silver Rounds $13/oz. PayPal)

1/2/09 sold out 10oz

7) Bullion Direct - (Silver Bars $12.94/oz. Out of stock on Eagles)

8) Tulving - 500 oz minimum order. Out of stock on Silver Eagles.

9) Kitco - (Silver Eagles $4 over spot, long shipping delays).


ScotiaBank, NO CLUE as to Mint or Quantity.

CCMinting  at

Mom & Pop Applachian Mint!!!!

Not even serious.


Academy bullion

out of stock tulving.

new bars, stamped apparently, not sure.


USVI Igot Co.

I am here to tell the story of the USVI Ingot Co. since I am one of only a very few people who knows it. I don't know if it will be helpful to collectors, but I want to share this story in a place accessible to anyone who chances upon a silver, or even gold, ingot stamped with the name of the USVI Ingot Co., and to let the world know about the bullion stamped with our name, and a few designs without it.

It was a volatile time for the silver market. The highest prices had already peaked, but interest in acquiring bullion was still strong. Our company did not survive for long, but my understanding is that many other mints left the business later in the 1980s when silver prices bottomed out.

Our story is noteworthy for the techniques devised by owner, our founder, to innovate some creative solutions to knotty production issues. His ultimate goal was to create a machine that would automate the fabrication of precious metal products, either ingots, medals, or jewelry findings. It was a noble enterprise, but a path filled with many obstacles. The tool steels and machinery available to us were prone to failure at high temperatures and pressures, and funding could not match the needs of the experiments. It was the fickleness of bullion collectors that caused our final demise as prices fell and interest waned.

Monarch Not even serious, Poured of course.


Cortez Mine, novelity award 10oz bar only, not serious


ah, but not to worry, OBAMA will save us all, with his


gold back mark after weinmark,

siclair says this will happen again in the US